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 Post subject: Re: POV Video - Deathlooping Kite Drags Rider Into A Rock Je
PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 1:01 pm 
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Yes I have used that expletive before under the same circumstances. Kept thinking release, release, release!!


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 Post subject: Re: POV Video - Deathlooping Kite Drags Rider Into A Rock Je
PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 4:16 pm 
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I think lots of us have. Kiters should take a good look at this and ask themselves what they would do in the same circumstances to avoid dragging into the rocks.

For all the folks that are saying use your O'shit handle or even to hold the center lines, have you done this with a kite with heavily twisted lines? Did it work or did it just power the looping kite up?

With untwisted lines, these approaches should work but that isn't what happened here. Twisted lines can defeat most depowering systems on kites, the lines stop sliding due to friction and leave you attached to an out of control powered looping kite often in seconds dragging you by your primary QR attachment or leash.

The conventional approach is to open your primary QR and see how things go, if not good, then open your leash QR setting the kite free. In this instance you may not have time to get to the leash QR before you hit something. Riders in the past at times could only hit one QR before impact.


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 Post subject: Re: POV Video - Deathlooping Kite Drags Rider Into A Rock Je
PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 5:15 pm 
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windrupted wrote:
Someone stated: "I agree with the others though, I think a right hand tug on an OS handle would have prevented his eventual rock stuffing."

He doesn't have the O Shit option. Climbing the leader lines right after he yelled the F word, until the kite kite was neutered, then removing his leash, then ditching the rig was his best bet (assuming there was no one around to grab his kite.) If there was anyone downwind then he could have yelled at them to go away......then ditched it. You can always stand there holding the leaderlines until your dinner is getting cold.

Oh crap look at me, I AM MR. KITE-SAFETY-KNOW-IT-ALL.


Hey dumbass, if you read everyone's post before mine stating IF he had O shit handles this could have been averted or at least helped. I agreed with that statement. No shit he doesn't have them Captain Observant.

Seeing his cluster he could have helped himself out and used OS handle IF he had them. He didn't help his situation much by walking back to shore putting the kite directly downwind of him either.

Piss on you if you're againt giving suggestions for how to maybe handle a situation that might prevent this for someone else down the road.


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 Post subject: Re: POV Video - Deathlooping Kite Drags Rider Into A Rock Je
PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 6:16 pm 
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Darwin award. That dimwit was trying to save the kite. He had plenty of time to ditch. It is a good lesson in not valuing your gear over your safety though.
Just another kook making kiting look dangerous.............


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 Post subject: Re: POV Video - Deathlooping Kite Drags Rider Into A Rock Je
PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 7:04 pm 
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Well, it really seems he is an unexperienced kiter. From the time he tried to re-launch, he should've noticed there was something off. He automatically entered the "save the kite" mode and never realised what was wrong. That's why he tries to re-launch again, now in the land. Then, and just then, he sees the mess and release. Unluckly, too late, due to the tangles.

His primary QR was awesome, and released quickly indeed. His secondary was a piece of crap. To be honest, that seemed not to work at all!

At least, it serves as a warning for all of us and, must say, a great source of discussion and experience sharing.

And please, live to kite another day, fellows!


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 Post subject: Re: POV Video - Deathlooping Kite Drags Rider Into A Rock Je
PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 9:39 am 
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Glad I read this post, I love my SS equipment, but sometimes I think the Comp Stick Control Bar is a bit excessive. :nono: I'd never been in a situation where the OS handles made any sense to me, figured my primary release would send the bar far enough away where OS handles wouldn't matter anyway. If the primary failed and I wasn't being pulled to hard, I might even go for my knife before letting the kite go entirely (not sure if anyone has suffered a major lawsuit by hitting a bystander with a rouge kite or line set and bar attached to a rouge kite, or if a bystander has been killed by a kiter that didn't want to take a knife to one of his lines). So I'd been looking at bars that had less bells and whistles, i.e. the BWS Undertow Bar. Perhaps I will stay with my Comp Stick, and add the OS handle emergency role play to my lesson plan. Should probably stay away from my favorite jetty spot to, which I usually have all to myself ; )

Nobody mentioned knifing a line or two, save a life, yours and a kid way downwind, save your kite, buy some new lines. I keep a double bladed knife at the side of my Dakine harness, and in the front pocket, and often will unsheathe my lifesavers so the movement pattern is programmed into memory. (might add this to a lesson plan, practice pulling knifes, left handed, right handed while body dragging with your eyes closed, or at least visualize this)

Nobody mentioned this type of stuff to me when I took lessons, two years of flying my CSC Bar and a visual for the OS handles hadn't been provided. I like the idea of instructors role playing worst case scenarios, regardless if it takes an extra session or two. Or linking to this type of video from their websites.

Would a knife cut the line of the secondary system, in the rare case of failure? hmmmm

"I have to gun's, one for each of you" -Tombstone
"The frost, sometimes it makes the blade stick" -Gladiator

Cheers,
Donavan
trxdude.com


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 Post subject: Another accident POV video: POV Video - Deathlooping Kite Dr
PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 3:44 pm 
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Just heard about another accident again involving an inexperience, apparently untrained kiter out in overpowered conditions this time. He was dragged and then lofted out through the top of a tree. Once the lines of a powered up kite go into a tree, the branches act as pulleys so as long as the kite is powered up, the lines and rider will follow. This can also happen with current pulling your kite on the water if your lines slide under a rock or fouling on a piling. This can cause you to be pulled and held underwater. Something similar happened to a kiter eight years ago with him being pulled through the canopy of a tree resulting in him suffering paralysis in his lower legs.


Image


The POV video including accident reconstruction animation and details

HERE


.


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 Post subject: Re: POV Video - Deathlooping Kite Drags Rider Into A Rock Je
PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 8:13 pm 
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.
PVITfrumBYRAM wrote:
Very good observations from everyone. ........

When teaching students about the quick release systems, I always ask my students, what do you value more, your life or your 1500 dollar kite? I then make it clear that you need to know that answer before shit hits the fan because if you wait for it to happen and then ask the question, you end up dragged into a jetty......
........... As I did, I remembered I was riding suicide so I was going to go through some more yardage if I didn't ditch my secondary. Anyways, there was a jetty about 80-100 in front of me, but I knew I had a short amount of time .......
This is a spot I taught at and managed...........

Most people don't teach and I feel like few people really spend much time thinking about the scenarios and rarely observe them second hand. They probably don't practice emergencies, self landings and self rescues either. ......


Generally, the MOST DANGEROUS obstacles, in order of importance, are:
1. A road downwind (with traffic).
2. People (and pets).
3. A ROCK JETTY

Although I mostly agree with PVITfrumBYRAM’s other comments above, it seems that he teaches at a location where there is a jetty downwind. If this is the case, even though he hopefully controls his lessons such that his students are not in any danger during their lessons, the EXAMPLE he apparently sets by giving lessons at this location and personally kiting too close to this extremely dangerous obstacle is the type of behavior which PROMOTES thoughtless conduct, especially by novices who generally use other’s behavior as a guide.

As to the specific isues raised by this thread, first, I think that the subject kiter should be thanked for posting his mishap for others benefit. Most of the kiters I know, would make it a point to never mention their mistakes, let alone post them online.

Second, it seems to me that the MOST IMPORTANT POINT is that it is critical to ALWAYS be aware of where you will end up if something goes wrong. And the worse that the place is, the FARTHER away you need to be.

Although in this particular case, the kiter actually had more than enough time to ditch the kite IF he had realized the danger he was in, if he had been another 500-1000 feet away to start with, it’s likely he would have avoided his collision with the jetty by ditching the kite or implementing one of the other possible solutions as others have posted.

If the obstacle had been a road or people, greater distance becomes even more important since ditching the kite becomes more problematic and attempting to implement one of the other possible solutions becomes more urgent.

Incidentally, compared to a TYPICAL jagged, slime and barnacle encrusted jetty unsmoothed by a concrete topping, where he ended up was like a waterbed.

RickI wrote:
........Once the lines of a powered up kite go into a tree, the branches act as pulleys so as long as the kite is powered up, the lines and rider will follow. This can also happen with current pulling your kite on the water if your lines slide under a rock or fouling on a piling. This can cause you to be pulled and held underwater. ........

Image
.......


Imagine if instead of a tree, you got dragged over to power lines.

Richard M.
Malibu Kitesurfing - since 2002
(310) - 430 - KITE (5483)
http://www.MalibuKitesurfing.NET
kfRichard@MalibuKitesurfing.NET


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 Post subject: Re: POV Video - Deathlooping Kite Drags Rider Into A Rock Je
PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 8:25 pm 
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That has happened a few times over the years but without serious injury, by dumb luck in the cases I have heard about. A guy had a particularly notable and painful misadventure in the UK years back ("Sparky") and a teen was yoyo'd up a high tension line more recently and dropped on a metal traffic barrier amazingly coming away largely unhurt.

Getting slingshotted out the top of a tree to slam into the ground sounds particularly painful. It paralyzed a rider some years back.

Kite gear can mess you up, no matter how harmless it might look to folks who know little about the sport. New kiters really need to take adequate, quality pro lessons before trying it on their own. That big toy kite can really tear you up if things go wrong. Way too many new kiters have proven this the hard and painful way over the years.


Quote:

Imagine if instead of a tree, you got dragged over to power lines.



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 Post subject: Re: POV Video - Deathlooping Kite Drags Rider Into A Rock Je
PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 1:05 am 
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Anyone have any idea how his center lines ended up wrapped around his bar? Looks like it occurred after a fall where he got slack in his lines and then picked the bar up with the center lines wrapped over the right side of the bar. This has never happened to me so I'm curious how the hell it happened.


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