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 Post subject: Re: Best kite for unhooked tricks between 8 and 12 knots?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 5:36 am 
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Blade Fat Lady = massive POP, lot of grunt

Big air? Not bellow 12 knots. But above : the speed of this kite + massive POP = aerial views :o

I've just ordered the 2013, my comments are for the 2012. From what I've read, the 2013 is similar to the 2012 + few optimizations (better upwind, less bar preasure, new bar).


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 Post subject: Re: Best kite for unhooked tricks between 8 and 12 knots?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 8:49 am 
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papand wrote:
Its called cable-park :thumb:


Epic Infinity ..... people who tried said that is is like cable :wink:


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 Post subject: Re: Best kite for unhooked tricks between 8 and 12 knots?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 11:11 am 
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Lot of company(?) shouters already here. Tautologies' video post made me smile "most powerfull kite I've ever flown". Sure it is true if you have not tried anything more powerful but there is :) and you are ignorant (ok, it was kite company marketing video so you can pretend to be ignorant). It is like stating for general community that Citroen 2CV is worlds fastest car ignoring Bugatti Veyron or perhaps some Koenigsegg missiles.

joandani wrote:
which one will be better for freestyle? 15 FS Dlx, spleene x19, naish draft, north dyno? maybe a Zephyr...

I have an option I like, cause with 15FS DLX I could practice freestyle, but the thing I liked is that i could also boost higt I supose, but if with 10 knots i couldnt be able to do a decent powerful unhooked stuff (always thinking about a normal twintip like a Clash), maybe i would prefer a big one with slower turning, but better pop for unhook in 9-12 knots and forget boosting... you know what I mean? May be is a little bit difficult to explain :P It all depends with how many knots you can do some decent unhooked freestyle stuff... The perfect kite i need now would be one that i could do freestyle and boost in 9-12 knots, but dont know if it exist, cause i didnt tested anyone except spleene x19 :S


I don't think it is easy to put kites in order as there are so many variables from personal preferences to physical facts. Why some kite's have high boost and hang time. It is all about design parameter choices of the kite designer. With every kite you listed can probably be used for something.

But my thinking of kiting is that kiting is all about power what you have available at that moment. You need power to do things and you need depower to be able to set up things at that real time wind condition ie depower range. Turning comes after that, what you do with high turning kite if you cannot even plane with that or your riding is sineing (sine) only? You still sit on the beach or go home as if you sine the kite you don't have power for the trick.

As you realized that at 10 knots you cannot boost to skies but you can go big in regards of wind level. You cannot compare 10 knot jumps to 20 knots or even to Red Bull King of Air with 40 knots (and those still use wave kickers). I say definitely with Speed3 15DLX you can jump and do freestyle at 10 knots and it has been proven many many times by normal user videos. Again same normal user video proves that you can go big with same kite.

One question could be. What kite allows me to do my kind/style of freestyle at low wind. Can the same kite be used for big air and more powerful freestyle at higher wind levels as you seem to wish?

Many light wind kites cannot do because of limited *real* depower as you cannot hold the edge for loading or your riding is about edging hard against enormous pull and you drift downwind and struggle to maintain level. Toby is IMO remarkable holding 18m Dyno over 20 knots when my friend at local spot said that for him Dyno 18m turns already big when it is flying properly. And when it is not flying it seems to Hinderburg a lot. Local experience with Dyno 16m was that when winds increased it started dragging downwind as well, so people bought Speed3s.

I like to watch end-user videos to see what *ordinary* people can do with the gear. Do not try to judge the wind if it is 7, 9 or 15 knots. For some reason person on video is using that gear (that gear you are interested in because you searched for it) and he probably has other kites & boards as well. But he chose that one based on conditions and quiver to be optimum for *his* style at particular point of time when he observed weather at the beach.

X-19 non-pro hobbyist freestyle: https://vimeo.com/24040516
Speed3 15DLX (probably): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O6R3PWcxOBo
Speed3 21DLX: https://vimeo.com/44165024

I know that X-19 rider on above video has Spleene 12m LEI so probably wind at the video was too low for that. But why I cannot easily find similar videos of other kites considered to be low wind kites starting at about 8 knot? Like if Epic Infinity is sold by thoouusands (image given by DM at KF) where are the happy user videos doing some tricks and big air? Some low wind kites even still struggle relaunching at 8 knots and if you practice freestyle/unhooked starting from 8 knots you probably need the relaunching capabilities on second priority to power requirement.

Trying to find "your optimum kite" is hard in today's marketing jungle. You always go blind folded to some choice according to advise given by ignorants (including me as I've my view and I've not tried everything). :) That is why I said you should short list the kite for closer inspection (go for a demo if possible) as nice overall kite.


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 Post subject: Re: Best kite for unhooked tricks between 8 and 12 knots?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 12:33 pm 
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Posts: 55
Thnks joriws, really nice post and videos! I needed a post like you did it. It helped me.

I will specify more, my weigh is 62 Kg, my biggest kite is a torch 12m, and the thing why I need a Flysurfer Speed 3 15DLX (or 21, but i am thinking i will go for the 15, because of my small weigh) or the Spleene X19, is because I live in Castelldefels (Barcelona) and there are lots of days with a wind average of 10 knots. (8-12 knots).

So my doubt now is if i take a FS 15 DLX (with my Clash 136 (normal twintip, not race or monster doors) i will really have decent freestyle sessions with DLX in Castelldefels (sea, not lagoon)... with its wind range 8-12 knots... i wouldnt want to buy a 15 DLX and after say, shit, may be i could take the spleene x19 or the FS 21, because there is not so much difference of wind that i thougt with my 12 torch (which I actually need 13-15 knots to start with decent unhooked stuff)... i hope u will understand my doubt... for that reason I want to know if there is someone with similar weight who already has 15 DLX and told me, with which wind he start doing unhooked stuff.

But, without testing, I am actually thinking it will be good for my and this spot conditions the 15 DLX.

Thanks!!! More opinions? :)

PD: someone know where can i test a FS 15 in Catalonia?


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 Post subject: Re: Best kite for unhooked tricks between 8 and 12 knots?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 1:00 pm 
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Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2013 1:16 pm
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Switch Nitro V2 14M hands down!!! Not a lawn mower and behaves like a c kite unhooked. Check out my review. 8)

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2379461


Last edited by toddalbinson on Thu Feb 28, 2013 1:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Best kite for unhooked tricks between 8 and 12 knots?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 1:04 pm 
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Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2007 7:42 pm
Posts: 222
Location: Lisbon /portugal
URSS wrote:
Blade Fat Lady = massive POP, lot of grunt

Big air? Not bellow 12 knots. But above : the speed of this kite + massive POP = aerial views :o

I've just ordered the 2013, my comments are for the 2012. From what I've read, the 2013 is similar to the 2012 + few optimizations (better upwind, less bar preasure, new bar).


+1

by far one of the best, (if not the best) LW kites in the market, really fast for his size and really good in unhooked moves, you can make kiteloops without any problem...


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 Post subject: Re: Best kite for unhooked tricks between 8 and 12 knots?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 4:23 pm 
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Joined: Wed Nov 24, 2010 11:03 am
Posts: 166
joandani wrote:
Thnks joriws, really nice post and videos! I needed a post like you did it. It helped me.

I will specify more, my weigh is 62 Kg, my biggest kite is a torch 12m, and the thing why I need a Flysurfer Speed 3 15DLX (or 21, but i am thinking i will go for the 15, because of my small weigh) or the Spleene X19, is because I live in Castelldefels (Barcelona) and there are lots of days with a wind average of 10 knots. (8-12 knots).

So my doubt now is if i take a FS 15 DLX (with my Clash 136 (normal twintip, not race or monster doors) i will really have decent freestyle sessions with DLX in Castelldefels (sea, not lagoon)... with its wind range 8-12 knots... i wouldnt want to buy a 15 DLX and after say, shit, may be i could take the spleene x19 or the FS 21, because there is not so much difference of wind that i thougt with my 12 torch (which I actually need 13-15 knots to start with decent unhooked stuff)... i hope u will understand my doubt... for that reason I want to know if there is someone with similar weight who already has 15 DLX and told me, with which wind he start doing unhooked stuff.

But, without testing, I am actually thinking it will be good for my and this spot conditions the 15 DLX.

Thanks!!! More opinions? :)

PD: someone know where can i test a FS 15 in Catalonia?


You are so light, I almost weight double and my friends I talk&see kiting weight usually >80kg. And I was assuming you are the "average" 80kg person looking for something at that 8-12kn range which has kick for sure.

My thinking is that you do not gain that much extra with bigger sizes because of your weight. In Finland we have at least one 60kg Speed3 15DLX user and for him the 19m Speed3 was too large according his mention on local chat, went on the beach like "moon hopping" already at 10kn winds. So based on that statement by 60kg kiter I'd rule out most light wind kites, you just do not need that large kite like 16-21m foil & LEI. Speed3 19DLX static zenith pull could be 1/3 of your weight at 10 knots.

So 15DLX is the largest you should demo from this particular brand in my opinion. I now start thinking Speed3 12DLX for my recommendation for you to check :). For me 12DLX started working similar your Torch works for you at 12-13 knots but I weight 110kg. So you can imagine what kind of power it has when commanded and it would suit your requirement, but with 12 you could have doubts in light winds if 15 would be better. Currently my quiver is S3 15DLX + 10m as 15 being more optimal for my local conditions (wind, time available, fun factor) and 10 is for highish to nuking winds.

At local beaches I can jump nicely with S3 15DLX (4s hang time, I use helmet cam every session) when 10y experienced kite instructor (under 70kg) cuts the lawn with 12m Rebel 2013. Here is video of me chasecam with same kite instructor (he is trying some Best(?) kite at the video) and that is the jump I can do below 10kn winds with 15m S3 kite. His only comment was let's takes this again when there is more wind than 5m/s (10 knots what you are looking for). I hope you can see the video (privacy settings). As you can see from the bar & depower trim I use max 1/3 of my potential power to play with him and stay in camera position. But ice takes away some weight disadvantage I have. But this is why I think the kite has the power you want at 8-12kn.

https://www.facebook.com/video/embed?video_id=10151355178898430

I'd say that X-19 could be even dangerous for your weight if any gust comes, you just cannot hold it down (again the depower limitations). I've seen lofts with X-19 with heavier riders than you are. But I've never seen lofts with Speed3. But if the wind is constant thermal wind X-19 is nice alternate kite at summer breeze with a sunshine.

Here is a pro rider (to me he is looking light weight which is the point) with professionally done video Speed3 19DLX showing that it is possible for a small guy to do freestyle with 19 (with almost all depower pulled in as a note by me): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pj-wYPClUX0

So sorry I cannot tell that for certain you would not regret choosing (powerwise) 15m over 19m kite because I have no first hand experience for a rider of your weight with 15/19/21 Flysurfers. My thinking now is that 12 or 15 could be enough power for your requirement at Speed3 line. But optimum power is a personal preference of what do you like and expect. If you did not see power of X-19 as a problem then definitely 15 (compared to 12) as you would have more power at 8-12 knot range. But 12DLX is higher boosting kite of those two if you like boosting as well.

I quickly looked FS web page for dealers. Sorry, nobody "official" at Catalonia. Madrid, Mallorca and Leucate la Franqui at the other side of the border. Kitemallorca has some videos on youtube and they probably have the same wind conditions you experience? Perhaps you could ask there for more info or even visit for a demo (is it a boat trip for you?) or ask if they know anybody using S3 15 at Barcelona..

I guess there is no 14-15m Torch available for you to test if it suits your power requirements? If I was you I'd also look (short list) Ozone Edge 13/15 size if it suits your needs.


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 Post subject: Re: Best kite for unhooked tricks between 8 and 12 knots?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 4:51 pm 
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Joined: Wed Mar 11, 2009 9:57 pm
Posts: 421
calibra wrote:
URSS wrote:
Blade Fat Lady = massive POP, lot of grunt

Big air? Not bellow 12 knots. But above : the speed of this kite + massive POP = aerial views :o

I've just ordered the 2013, my comments are for the 2012. From what I've read, the 2013 is similar to the 2012 + few optimizations (better upwind, less bar preasure, new bar).


+1

by far one of the best, (if not the best) LW kites in the market, really fast for his size and really good in unhooked moves, you can make kiteloops without any problem...


+2
If there is any thing I am trying to learn unhooked then I do it first on my fat lady. Such a great kite for this. Many other LW kites do not perform well for freestyle, as they misbehave with slack lines.


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 Post subject: Re: Best kite for unhooked tricks between 8 and 12 knots?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 11:32 pm 
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Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2011 9:02 pm
Posts: 55
Joriws, awesome reply and helpful info!!! if i go for flysurfer, i definitly go for a 15 minimum, for me power is not a problem... cause i wont use the kite in more than 13-14 knots... for this i have the torch 12. when I tested spleene, there were moments of 12-13 knots of gust and no problem for me, only touching the depower trim in the middel more or less, was good for me to do powerfull unhook. awesome video the second one! the first one i couldnt open it! dont u have any other way to watch it??? thnks for all again.

Fdvj, can u tell me someone to ask for testing the Blade Fat Lady here in catalonia? thnks too!


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 Post subject: Re: Best kite for unhooked tricks between 8 and 12 knots?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 01, 2013 12:00 am 
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Posts: 50
ot: when somebody will explain me why I can get so much slack in bigger kite, and how to get the same from medium and small size kite I will be an happy man...and a real better kiter!!! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


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