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 Post subject: Red on left side
PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 1:09 pm 
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Joined: Wed Feb 15, 2012 3:59 pm
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I guess most of us know that the red side of the bar shall be in your left hand. Well, some kite brands seem to ignore this comes from the nautical (and also aircraft) international standard where you have a red navigation light on port side, green navigation light on starboard. So why are we not doing things this way ?! Have a look at SS, cab and core bars for example, no red at all on that last one ! I am not too worried about that myself, I just think the manufacturer of my bar is stupid for putting blue on the right and black on the left. Mostly I am worried for beginners who might do bad things going from one manufacturer to the other. So, instead of all that bullshit about turning pushing pulling quick release and other stupid safety systems, they could at least start by using international color codes properly. Funny though, the only brand I can see doing it right is the one polluting this forum everyday with all kind of BS...

sorry for the bad mood, wind is a bit late today ;-)


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 Post subject: Re: Red on left side
PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 3:36 pm 
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Joined: Sun Dec 04, 2005 11:48 pm
Posts: 368
romkite wrote:
So, instead of all that bullshit about turning pushing pulling quick release and other stupid safety systems, they could at least start by using international color codes properly. Funny though, the only brand I can see doing it right is the one polluting this forum everyday with all kind of BS...


I agree that red should be on the bar and obvious, but, product design (in the long-run) is a reflection of perceived customer demand.

Example:
A while back Dimitri/Epic asked this forum how the handle should look. He provided multiple choices, I believe Epics bar is a result of that feedback.

Easy way to remember that port is left
left = port (both 4 letters)


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 Post subject: Re: Red on left side
PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 4:10 pm 
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Joined: Sat May 22, 2010 3:20 am
Posts: 211
Bar colors have change but as far as I've seen, there still seems to be distinction to follow. Personally I like the my bar is red on the left and blue on the right. Old cabrinha bars were somewhat difficult for students to pay that much attention to the colors because the whole bar was pretty much black with some red highlights on the left side. Now the variations are something like white and black, white and green, yellow and blue, or even white and yellow. The more dominant or darkest color or shade is the right side.

Even if you rig up backwards the kite will fly the same. If you inverted your kite on a jump or something or it started looping on you, trying to decipher how to solve the problem and return the situation back to something safe will be harder and perhaps cause injury. You say to yourself, the left wingtip is in a jam or wrapped behind the leading edge, so you do something the Red side of the bar and the right wingtip feels the input. The kite launches and loops because you spent your first opportunity trying to fix the issue with what you thought was the correct side of the bar. Now you are being dragged along, confused, knowing your kite made one loop, might go through more loops, etc.... This is just hypothetical so no need for anyone to try and break this all down.

I see people rigged up backwards all the time, I ask why did you attach the red line to the blue pigtails and the blue line to the red? Even with a red and green bar this happens so I don't think color combos is less important than someone's consistency in rigging. I tell them the kite will still work, the chicken loop will still function the same if something goes wrong but you should rig up right, and be confident about it, that way if something happens out in the water, you do not waste any time pulling the wrong line, getting dragged and then asking yourself, "Did I rig wrong or cross the lines?" when at that point you should maybe be thinking, don't panic, might have to engage one or possibly both safeties.

What it really boils down to is people not taking enough lessons, not getting enough feed back from qualified professionals. The people that take the bare minimum in lessons, can water start and demonstrate riding skills, they buy a kite and go on there own but have no real guidance after that, no supervision except for that of their friend who is probably do the same mistakes if any. I've taught 10-12 year olds who in one lesson are more safety conscious and consistently rig up properly. On any given windy day, I see somewhere in the neighborhood of 1-5 backwards riggings an it is usually the same person or someone being chat up by someone else.

I think there already is a standard talked about quite a bit on this forum and in lessons. Know how to activate you safety mechanisms, know how to check proper functionality (this includes knowing your equipment i.e. kite structure, lines, trim strap, throw, chicken loop bar and color significance). Anyone not completely sure of themselves ought to be on the website of their kite brand, or on youtube watching how to videos and tech tips. Companies are trying to provide more to their customers these days by offering videos on how to use their equipment.

I'm curious what bar you have where the blue is on the right and black on the left though. Hopefully you are on the water or snow or grass by now.


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 Post subject: Re: Red on left side
PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 4:13 pm 
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Joined: Sat May 22, 2010 3:20 am
Posts: 211
SalmonSlayer wrote:
romkite wrote:
Easy way to remember that port is left
left = port (both 4 letters)


The way I like is
There is no PORT LEFT in the alcohol cabinet.


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 Post subject: Re: Red on left side
PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 4:24 pm 
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Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2013 4:28 pm
Posts: 88
Location: BC, Canada/Mexico
Kite manufacturers should keep nautical rules in mind. red left green right. I would like to get a red and green magnetic led and attach to kite for night kiting. Or should the kite have a masthead light (white) and the board have the port starboard light? :D


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 Post subject: Re: Red on left side
PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 5:00 pm 
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Posts: 211
http://www.surf-store.com/gaastra-x-4-line-bar-2013/

I found this bar, in my opinion, poor color swatch design. Green highlights and white bar looks great like the new Epic bar and some Cabrinha bars, but I would have kept the left side white with a red L mark and the right side the black side with a white R mark.

Leds on the kite at night are sick, having lights on the board would be better, ground affects could illuminate the water and spray!


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 Post subject: Re: Red on left side
PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 5:19 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jul 13, 2008 9:49 am
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Location: shallow sea
i don't see any seriously convincing reason for making all bars alike left-red right-green(or blue).
i'd personally like more red-black or black-white combinations but whatever, i really don't care about the colors much.

bar ends colors have nothing to do with the nautical navigation lights. those lights designed for other vessels to see your vessel not for you to know which side of your craft port and which is starboard.
millions fresh drivers get driving licenses and nobody paints car steering wheels red and green.
or may be all kiters should wear similar half-red half-green boardshorts?

i'm sure 99,5 percent of newbies never heard of nautical navigation lights, so yeah, i think it does not matter which color combination bar has, main thing the bar ends have to have some well recognizable difference in colors.


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 Post subject: Re: Red on left side
PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 5:42 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jun 09, 2012 2:54 am
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Location: Vancouver, Canada
That new epic bar is horrible, putting green on left.

Which colour isn't that important, as long as everyone is consistent. It's an established standard that red goes on the left, going against that is dangerous.


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 Post subject: Re: Red on left side
PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 6:09 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jan 02, 2011 11:45 pm
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Location: The Gorge
You guys know kite bars are symmetrical, right?


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 Post subject: Re: Red on left side
PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 6:37 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jan 23, 2009 4:27 pm
Posts: 188
Location: Hayle, UK. Sponsored by North, Ion, Freeriders. www.pastyadventures.co.uk
I think this is a massive issue and needs to be addressed.
a lot of newbies have some sort of sailing or wind knowledge so most know, RED IS LEFT.
most trainer kites have red on the left although i just got one which is more red on the right!
you cant simply turn bar around as brand logo is on one side which is normally the front.
I think its pretty simple for brands to at least have a red bar end or float on the left side and if it was standard for all brands it would be much easier for everyone.
right side can be any colour (other than red) and is good spot for brand logo.
the wrong way wording on some bars is good but once you have it that close it could be too late.
if the bar is blatantly coloured red on the left side you can easily spot it and grab the bar correctly first time.
If there was an industry standard for red on left of bar along with a push away safety release I think it would be much safer and seem logical to newbies coming from any sailing or wind sports.
then if a newbie (or anyone for that matter) buys a brand they didnt learn on or are used to, the bar and safety system would be very similar to what they have been using.
This comes from a teaching and personal view
Good topic. Hope the brands take notice
cheers
lee


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