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? For Bill Hansen regarding 3 vs 4 strut design

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Kamikuza
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Re: ? For Bill Hansen regarding 3 vs 4 strut design

Postby Kamikuza » Sat Feb 11, 2012 3:19 pm

Good reading, thanks I learned things :thumb:

So... North have/had the semi-detached center strut thing - not worth it?
How about the SS idea of building the strut into the sail - worth it? looks nice & aero anyway :)

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Re: ? For Bill Hansen regarding 3 vs 4 strut design

Postby jb8431 » Sat Feb 11, 2012 8:58 pm

Image

Notice how close the two middle struts are. I have the 9m origin 1 and it is an awsome kite. my favorite 9m of all time and very powerful fast and immediate turning response and stable, super fun freeride/freestyle/wave and kite loops are so fun with this kite, i am bumbed about the new origin 2 which is 4 strut with no center strut, I tried it and in gusty wind the handling was terrible IMO. the 6 strut version above seems to me much different then any 4 strut version of no center strut kite I have tried. The 4 strut versions have huge gap in the middle.. Also i primarily ride Core kites and Core has maintained that a center strut is extremely important for a the kites stability as they state on their Website and that they have done R&D with no center strut kites and infill panels and have concluded the stability is less than that of a center strut kite. their modo is stick with the winning design.

I hope Genetrix goes back to the original Origin 1 kite or something very similar. Fantastic kite as it was!!!! definately one of the best all arounders I have tried.

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Re: ? For Bill Hansen regarding 3 vs 4 strut design

Postby jb8431 » Sat Feb 11, 2012 9:08 pm

Image

Image

This shows the much larger gap in the middle on the newer version. It made a big difference in flight stabilty when I tried it, especially in gusty wind.

The top kite I have in the 9m 2009/2010 kite and love that kite, absolutely fun at everything.

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Re: ? For Bill Hansen regarding 3 vs 4 strut design

Postby jjjlaudenslager » Sun Mar 10, 2013 6:15 pm

Never having used a kite without a center strut, and based on reviews and a kite friend's opinion who has one and likes it, I just bought a 2012 two strut Naish Ride 8m. I have only put it up at a local (Colorado) field where it looked to fill and fly about as nicely as my previous favorite three strut Eclipse Nano 6m and three strut Ozone Light 10m. Five weeks from now I will be using it in the surf at South Padre Island.

Anybody care to predict whether I will notice a comparative deficiency because of the lack of a center strut?

John L

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Re: ? For Bill Hansen regarding 3 vs 4 strut design

Postby tautologies » Sun Mar 10, 2013 9:57 pm

eree wrote:
well i'm not going to be so polite.
you don't have to be aerodynamics engineer to see what is good and what isn't. look at the nature, natural selection shows us: almost 100% of every advanced living beings have central rigid support structure to support its body. like spine for the mammals.



Regardless of the implementation I think your metaphor is misguided. Living being have a rigid central support because it is efficient for it to protect its organs. No such thing on a kite.

I think it has to do with the implementation. Just because the kahoona flutters doesn't mean that all even strut kites do. The Ride is a two strut kites, and the canopy is very solid. It has a bit more flutter, but nothing bad at all. When you fly it you see.
I think has to do with the skills of the designer more than anything else. Taking the time to get it right.

I also think we have to move away from thinking a canopy that is made from light cloth will not ever flutter. It is in its nature. I do not believe that adding battens for every spot on a kite that distorts a bit is be good...instead take it out via design. I'd much rather have slight flutter than having a kite that is heavy, slow, and doesn't pack down.

Again it depends on what you use the kite for and I doubt doing the strut deflate test the Bill is talking about has much purpose..because then you are modifying the number of struts on a kite...instead of designing a kite for the specific amount of struts.

These are just tradeoffs, but my thought is that it depends on the kite. If you have a frame that naturally is flat in the centre, then fine with no middle strut at all. I think the Ride is a very good example of this. It is stable, flies super well, has relatively little flutter, and add to it..it is light and works well. I am confident that many brands will follow this trend. Two struts, no struts...it challenges the designers, and moves the industry forward. It is a whole different ball game.


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