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 Post subject: Re: 14 m for big lofty jump
PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2013 3:12 pm 
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EPIC Screamer 14 is another big boosting 14 meter.


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 Post subject: Re: 14 m for big lofty jump
PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 7:09 am 
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So Westozzy, what was the last model Rebel you have experience with ?

The reason I ask is because the last three models ( 2011, 2012, 2013 ) are very different from each other, with the 2013 being the most like an Edge and the 2011 being the least.........

I'm not real sure about the symantics between freestyle and freeride, but the only mode of sailing I would prefer the Edge to the 2013 Rebel is Racing......... which is well documented.

After that I'd say they are both great kites with the 2013 Rebel equal in Jumping and very close in hangtime, it's almost more a matter of rider skill than anything else.

But when it comes to bar responsiveness, turning and relaunchability I think most people would easily give the new Rebel the nod.........But remember we're compairing the best kites out there and like I said.....now-a-days it's more about trade-offs.......IMHO......The new Rebel has the least.......


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 Post subject: Re: 14 m for big lofty jump
PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 11:43 am 
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Yeh true I'm talking about the 2012. Is there that much difference with the 2013? I didn't pick that up in the reviews and I have read and talked to a number of riders.

You might be right about semantics but I see a very clear delineation. But yes I see what you mean.

Trade offs...maybe, I also see it as a matter of kite feel as a wing and its power delivery. The edge of course is a better race kite as it develops much more apparent wind. But if you enjoy translating this apparent wind, speed and associated power into the free riding arena then this is the reason I feel the edge is a superior kite to the rebel. By a fair margin actually. Must qualify in saying though this distinction only holds for the 9 to 11 size...maybe the 13. After that then edges are for cruising and racing only, hence why I don't own one.

There is another criteria I feel the edge surpasses the rebel and that is at the very top and even beyond of its specified wind range per size kite and weight of rider (given the same board). I am able to hold down and transfer the power generated at these high ends into incredible height and hang time. The rebel I know becomes a handful given the same wind range specifications. And I have tried many times to take the rebel out in extreme conditions. But alas maybe the 2013 rebel has improved on this.

But....it is up to the individual and how they ride. There lies the definition of trade offs. I see no trade offs with the edge or the rebel, you fly the kite for its intended purpose and work with the kite. Trade offs come when you work against its design platform.

And I agree we are indeed talking about the best of the best as far as kites go.

When I say the edge is better, this is only from a personal point of view, it is not the truth. The truth is found within each rider. But this discussion might at least direct crew to try each kite and find out,

Ta for the chat.


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 Post subject: Re: 14 m for big lofty jump
PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 7:28 pm 
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Good discussion, Westozzy……… When I said " trade-offs " I meant what the designer most wanted the kite to excel at and in the case of the Edge, Ozone wanted max performance at the edge of the wind window and they did a great job of accomplishing that, but at the expense of maneuverability. You can't have both……….

As I said the 2013 Rebel is much more like the Edge than the older ones. Ken has made them flatter and faster and I think if you tried one you would be happy with the result. The 2013's have the kind of top end now like what you're talking about. I'm a small guy at 150lbs wet and this winter in Baja I was laughing out loud while riding a new 10m in 30+mph winds, getting scary air and enjoying the surrounding view from lofty heights…… normally I would have been on a 7m……….

I'm sure a good rider is going to adapt to the best attributes of his equipment……….With the 2013 Rebel you need less adapting.


I'm so happy we have the choices we have……… Happy Kiteing


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 Post subject: Re: 14 m for big lofty jump
PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 8:15 pm 
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Location: Saltspring Island, BC Canada & Mui Ne, Vietnam
I also ride Rebels and Edges. Most has been said comparing the 2. I rode rebels until this year when I demoed a 13m Edge for 20 minutes. Just after I landed I put my bran new Switch Nitro 2 12m up for sale and bought the 11 and 9 m Edges. I'm keeping my 2011 Rebels for when the waves pick up past 1.5 meters, wind past 30 knots and for my son who is still learning.
What sold me on the edges was my first jump! I did not expect to go as high or as far as I did with the conditions and the flight and landing was so smooth (its basically a paraglider). With the smaller size rebels (6,7,8's) I often need to sine the kite to feel it when I'm up high and I'm still nervous about pulling the trigger on a loop/downloop with the rebel. I never need to sine the edge and looping for landing is not needed however it handles them perfectly.


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 Post subject: Re: 14 m for big lofty jump
PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 11:43 pm 
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Don Lester wrote:
Good discussion, Westozzy……… When I said " trade-offs " I meant what the designer most wanted the kite to excel at and in the case of the Edge, Ozone wanted max performance at the edge of the wind window and they did a great job of accomplishing that, but at the expense of maneuverability. You can't have both……….

As I said the 2013 Rebel is much more like the Edge than the older ones. Ken has made them flatter and faster and I think if you tried one you would be happy with the result. The 2013's have the kind of top end now like what you're talking about. I'm a small guy at 150lbs wet and this winter in Baja I was laughing out loud while riding a new 10m in 30+mph winds, getting scary air and enjoying the surrounding view from lofty heights…… normally I would have been on a 7m……….

I'm sure a good rider is going to adapt to the best attributes of his equipment……….With the 2013 Rebel you need less adapting.


I'm so happy we have the choices we have……… Happy Kiteing




Agreed great convo and I as I do will indeed get on the new rebel as I make a point of not saying anything until I have actually ridden the kite. Kind of broke my rule here. Lol kind of.

If I was going to get a high aspect kite and wanted to really hit decent waves I would strongly suggest the liquid force NRG. you have to try it. Man the drift is mind blowing and yet it boosts. Still scratching my head on that one.


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 Post subject: Re: 14 m for big lofty jump
PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 6:45 pm 
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Hey flybykite..........

Are you really going to come on a world wide forum and try to compare the hangtime of a 2013 Edge 11m with a two year old Rebel 7m ???

Lets keep it real......OK


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 Post subject: Re: 14 m for big lofty jump
PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 6:24 am 
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Don Lester wrote:
Hey flybykite..........

Are you really going to come on a world wide forum and try to compare the hangtime of a 2013 Edge 11m with a two year old Rebel 7m ???

Lets keep it real......OK

What??? Not sure what you're talking about Don. I didnt compare the hangtime of the rebel to the Edge. Simply thought I might chime in since I also flew rebels and made a switch to Edges and am also familiar with the Switch nitros V1 and 2 which were mentioned in this thread.
I can compare the 2011-2013 rebels to the 2013 edge if you want. I have lots of 2011's and have flown the 2012's as well as the new 2013. 2011-2012 didnt change so much in the Rebel, just felt a bit lighter.
2013 compared to the 2011's is slightly different with a bit higher aspect. More hangtime in the jumps from previous years but still not the hangtime of the Edge.


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 Post subject: Re: 14 m for big lofty jump
PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 7:29 pm 
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Hey flybykite, glad you clarified your first post. You were not comparing 2011 6,7,8m Edges with Rebels. You were comparing 9 &11m 2013 Edges with old smaller Rebels.....

I agree with your assessment of 2011 to 2013 Rebels, however I don't agree that thoughs are small advances. If you fly a 2011 Rebel agggressively at the high end of it's range then take out a 2013 Rebel in the same wind you'll find you could easily use a one to two meter larger size and get comparable jump heights and hangtime to your new Edges. A 9m 2011 Rebel will be uncomfortably powered up in the same wind a 11m Edge will be fine in, hence the better hangtime.

Edges are great kites that have a great top end, totally opposite of 2011 Rebels with a very limited top end. 2011 Rebels were designed for people who like to fly the smallest kite possible, North changed that thought process for 2013..........For aggressive advanced riders the 2013 Rebel is a substantial improvement over past models........IMHO


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 Post subject: Re: 14 m for big lofty jump
PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 11:00 am 
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Don Lester wrote:
Hey flybykite, glad you clarified your first post. You were not comparing 2011 6,7,8m Edges with Rebels. You were comparing 9 &11m 2013 Edges with old smaller Rebels.....

I agree with your assessment of 2011 to 2013 Rebels, however I don't agree that thoughs are small advances. If you fly a 2011 Rebel agggressively at the high end of it's range then take out a 2013 Rebel in the same wind you'll find you could easily use a one to two meter larger size and get comparable jump heights and hangtime to your new Edges. A 9m 2011 Rebel will be uncomfortably powered up in the same wind a 11m Edge will be fine in, hence the better hangtime.

Edges are great kites that have a great top end, totally opposite of 2011 Rebels with a very limited top end. 2011 Rebels were designed for people who like to fly the smallest kite possible, North changed that thought process for 2013..........For aggressive advanced riders the 2013 Rebel is a substantial improvement over past models........IMHO


I don't think you can directly compare the Edge with the Rebel, they are both very different. The edge is higher aspect and flatter and it a LOT faster in a straight line and better upwind than the Rebel.

Being lower aspect the Rebel will sit further back and generates more pull but that doesn't translate into forward pull like the Edge does.

Not aimed at anyone here, but many people mistake grunt for actual usable power.

Flysurfers appear to have no grunt but will get you going in very very light wind due to how they move and generate apparent wind.


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