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 Post subject: Re: If you were considering the future of kiteboarding?
PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 11:53 am 
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TheJoe wrote:
To everyone saying safety you are wrong. Kites are as safe as they can get for the most part.
...


The Thread starter asked us to Not be kite specific ; so here goes :

It was blowing 30+ , then switched off-shore . I had an angle on the beach
so i shaved some fin off my board by running straight into the sand without
stopping ; pulled the QR but it didn't work cause i kited into a short-lived
wind-shadow. Next-up -- a Nice swim back to shore caus the piece of Sh*t
Didn't Work till the kite loaded back up !!
It was a short swim but shouldn't have bin one to start with if the system
had worked Faster.

Did a kite-loop on a transition turn , but dug the nose of the board into a
wave and i turned into a submarine ; the kite continued to loop. Nearly out
of breath i pull the QR but the piece of Sh*t didn't work with all those wraps
in the lines. Had to pull the secondary release on the Leach to escape that
one !! One of the lines hung-up on a 5mph zone buoy so i got lucky to still
have a kite !! That system didn't work too well and NO system will if Ya got
more than ONE wrap in the lines !!

It's blowing 40+ and the strut on Right Tip just deflated ; this kite SUCKS
in this much wind, (with a BAD turn) !!

My Fricken , (BRAND NEW) top-line just snapped !! Well "This" is gonna Suck !
YEA-- it HAD to be the one the Leash-line runs up !!!

I got "Taken Out" ((TWICE)) by Two different Kiters ;
cause their Leash Snapped !! One of those ordeals happened Last Summer, and
it SUCKED just as bad as the First one !!

Fricken Spreader-Bar hook just BROKE !!! Wonder if that ever happened
to someone Else besides ME ? UAH ------------------------------------------------YES !!

tautologies asked us to NOT make it Personal with our responses #@&*^!!! ; but
someone is Full of SH*T !!!!!

Bille


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 Post subject: Re: If you were considering the future of kiteboarding?
PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 1:28 pm 
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This is great stuff. I'm also getting some pm. I will summarize.

Can I ask to just post your own opinion without judging others' opinion just for this thread?

I know that can be hard..if Im going to be able to turn this into a study then I need as much input as possible...which means people must be able to speak freely.

:)


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 Post subject: Re: If you were considering the future of kiteboarding?
PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 2:15 pm 
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I think it is unfair for you to take one sentence of mine and put it out of context Bille. You could have avoided your quick release problems by checking them more often. All so since this has happened more than once with the same kite you are responsible for the fact that you knew it did not work properly but never took steps to fix it or replace it.

Here is what I originally posted in case you did not read the whole thing. Pay close attention to the 2nd paragraph.

TheJoe wrote:
To everyone saying safety you are wrong. Kites are as safe as they can get for the most part. Safety does not mean gear and gimmicks from the kite company. It is every single one of our own responsibility to ride in safe conditions and limit unnecessary risk.

Accidents will all ways happen big and small. Safety is not eliminating the it is at it's core reducing the chance and severity at which they occur. From my experience that starts with the choices and risks we take.


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 Post subject: Re: If you were considering the future of kiteboarding?
PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 2:28 pm 
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This may be in the unrealistic category, but improvements in how kites are launched and recovered could change the sport. Most of us have probably imagined some sort of realing device on a bar that you allow you to let the kite lines out while flying the kite. Then we tried to think of how that would work and couldn't come up with an answer.

Regardless of how, safer and more efficient rigging and launching could add better access to areas currently not usable (or at least easily usable).


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 Post subject: Re: If you were considering the future of kiteboarding?
PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 2:41 pm 
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TheJoe wrote:
To everyone saying safety you are wrong. Kites are as safe as they can get for the most part. Safety does not mean gear and gimmicks from the kite company. It is every single one of our own responsibility to ride in safe conditions and limit unnecessary risk.

Accidents will all ways happen big and small. Safety is not eliminating the it is at it's core reducing the chance and severity at which they occur. From my experience that starts with the choices and risks we take.


thejoe I dont know how to make kites safer but I am responding to the original post

"What would make kiteboard much better (this can be unrealistic)?"

I would say kitesurfing is about 10 times more dangerous than windsurfing. Not to say that kitesurfing is that dangerous it's not compared to paragliding, cave diving or free climbing. Just my unrealistic wish for kitesurfing to be even safer. Now I'm not going to talk about a QR on the spreader or inflatable PFD's, or even better training because that's not what the original poster wants, he doesn't want specifics.


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 Post subject: Re: If you were considering the future of kiteboarding?
PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 7:56 pm 
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Location: Traverse City, MI
Criticizing is too easy. :P

1 - Standards for measuring different attributes of a kite.
Position in wind window, turning speed, turning radius, speed across points of the window, depower percentage, turning while depowered, minimum wind speed for kite remain aloft (drift), sizing, power for size.

2 - An independent source for honest reviews, positive and negative.

3 – Videos showing the kite and rider simultaneously. Kiter narcissism is out of control. Granted, viewers can learn from watching just the rider, but it is way too rider focused.

4 – Video disclaimers for those just using camrig setups. Maybe it should just say “This video was made by me for me”

5 - Improved kite landing options. Solutions? None from me, but I sure hope somebody has one eventually.

6 – Pumps - What is with pumps?! The little backbreakers are just a ridiculous joke.
Double action foot pump? Hinged accordion style? Also, a downwinder friendly pump would be killer some.

7 – Improved/Universally Accepted method of instruction – The one that I am certified through is a very well developed program. However, some fundamental changes could make it more successful.

8 – Embracing existing safety equipment. The sooner helmets and pfds are used by professionals and shot by photographers, the better.


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 Post subject: Re: If you were considering the future of kiteboarding?
PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 7:56 pm 
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duplicate


Last edited by Rorke on Mon Mar 25, 2013 2:10 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: If you were considering the future of kiteboarding?
PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 9:24 pm 
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Find it funny someone can call lines a weak point! They are the single most important materials advance to this sport. No lines, no kiting. They have a mm diameter, they hold through full on kite loops for seasons. Q-power is so good it's practically zero stretch and last over 5 seasons with anything less than abusive care.

Canopy a strongpoint? They can't be left out for fear of wind and sun damage and if you abuse em you get maybe a season without repair, and one wave can spell the end for even a brand new canopy.

When lines wrap a canopy it the canopy that always comes out worse for wear.

Kites are really very good already. Great performance that suit beginners to experts alike, stable, gust tolerant, simple relaunch, and most of em fly perfectly right out of the bag. Was a time you had to know a thing or two just to get em set up right.

What I see as troubling is the move to more proprietary components. Integrated bar floats and the like look way cool, but in the long run, the foam degrades and cannot be replaced, they negate rear line tuning at the bar or leader line replacement. That's just one example.

I will always keep a simple bar set up around that has easily serviceable parts and lines.

I like the current trend in simplicity we see in kites with less struts, solid state sliders etc. I hope we see it apply to bars someday. Not sure I want no struts but the industry will settle on what works best in time. That is until the next big thing!


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 Post subject: Re: If you were considering the future of kiteboarding?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 2:53 am 
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TheJoe wrote:
...

Here is what I originally posted in case you did not read the whole thing. Pay close attention to the 2nd paragraph.
...


Your correct about the 2nd paragraph ; never got that far before banging out
my response. I just read to the second sentence . Sorry
The rest kinda qualified what you were thinking, thus the , (out of context).

HOWEVER
* I'll stand by the part about there IS no bar on the market, that can take two wraps
on the lines, and still guarantee a Clean Release.

** I'll also argue that sand can be problematic with the current valve systems
for most kites ; more thought could be directed at this , since Most kiters
lay-out their equipment in sand.

*** The Leash most people use ; Yea-- Bad Luck i was on the receiving end Twice,
by a run-away kite. It's a problem , but it wasn't MY leash that broke.
MY Leash is getting some stronger cord now though.

**** The Hook on the spreader bar ; They Break, and that's why i don't use them
any more. Thank you : Dynabar V-7 !!!

These are ALL flaws that can be problematic with current kite systems found
on modern equipment . The First one i just mentioned should be addressed
in the Very-Near future ; the inferior quality of some Leashes could actually
Kill someone that's down-wind of a run-away kite.

TheJoe wrote:
...
... Safety is not eliminating the it is at it's core reducing the chance and severity at which they occur. From my experience that starts with the choices and risks we take.


After actually Reading that part ; i agree 100%. It's the reason Why i never
do a kite-loop if someone is down-wind of me anymore. I may have to
ditch the kite completely, cause of what i mentioned above about the wrapped lines.

Before doing multiple kite-loop's now, i will actually Pre-wind my lines in the opposite
direction before going for the doubles, so i Never have but (1) wrap in my
lines Ever. This makes the Odds Much higher , of my QR working if needed.

Same goes for a double back-roll ; the bar gets Pre-wound once in the
opposite direction First !

What it boils down to is the importance of what --TheJoe-- said about
knowing your equipment. Too Bad i didn't finish reading what he wrote
before i Jumped on it !! :(

Bille


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 Post subject: Re: If you were considering the future of kiteboarding?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 3:05 am 
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Since we are allowed to be unrealistic here, I am surprised nobody has mentioned the thin plastic bladders that give our kites structure. (Ram airs excluded of course). If there were a way to provide the flexible structure needed without being dependent on bags of air that will surely leak at some point in their useful life.

In the real world, I am sure we can expect bladder and valve (and the adhesives between the two) technologies to improve.


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