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 Post subject: Re: Warning: if you try sliding hook you will never go back.
PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 10:32 am 
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Location: Ontario
Because I use the same spreader bar for fixed hook riding and don't want the shackle dangling around when not riding waves. The simple ring stows neatly when popped over one of the knots on the end of the line as pictured earlier. It also orients the shackle to function as a push away release. Something I'm used to.

If I find it ever goes off unintentionally I will go to a smaller stopper on the trigger line.


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 Post subject: Re: Warning: if you try sliding hook you will never go back.
PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 12:03 pm 
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Off topic: is it a usefull spreaderbar for big airs?


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 Post subject: Re: Warning: if you try sliding hook you will never go back.
PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 5:15 pm 
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Posts: 667
Location: L.A. & Ventura Counties, CA
Starsky wrote:
jaystore wrote:
Contribution to the discussion is welcome and bricolage should be posted in the "handmade" section. Ask Toby to open it!



I admire your entrepreneurial spirit and applaud your bringing a polished product to market, but that last bit.... THIS is a forum. Your are welcome to advertise but no single thread is an advertisement and any attempt to make it so is unwelcome.

I would never have posted these without that post:

Here is a super clean super safe DIY version that is every bit as slick as commercially available products, cost is about $60. Mostly for the high end snap shackle that has a working load of 880 kg a breaking load of 1500 kg and swivels. Do your research on shackles. This is the safest option for kiting. Photos show minimal mods to a standard dakine spreader bar pad and can be done inside a half hour if you know what your doing. I run a dedicated short line wave bar as shown and a regular commercial bar for unhooking/fixed hook twin tip riding. Shorter QR set up than standard chicken loop + hook means less loss of sheeting range when using slider. Slider line and ring stow cleanly. Tie downs at bottom stop spreader bar from flipping and are tied through pad. Fixed hook does not interfere in any way with sliding system or its safety. Leash is to mini 5th or single line flag that is independent of sliding system should it fail in any way.
...........

Aloha.

.
Very, very nice clean system ! Congratulations.

I especially like that the fixed hook remains and your QR stopper ball solution. Also, your other post concerning alternate snap shackels is exactly correct.

Some questions:
1. Why a ring instead of a pulley ? It seems likely that the ring's friction will wear the line much faster.
2. Is it possible for the QR ball to get snagged in the hook with slack lines ?
3. I purchased that same size Wichard about 10 years ago for $60 but the last time I checked ( 1 or 2 years ago), it was about $150. Have you found a reasonably priced supplier ?

Richard M.
Malibu Kitesurfing - since 2002
(310) - 430 - KITE (5483)
http://www.MalibuKitesurfing.NET
kfRichard@MalibuKitesurfing.NET


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 Post subject: Re: Warning: if you try sliding hook you will never go back.
PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 6:30 pm 
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Location: Ontario
Thanks

went with a ring for simplicity and the snap shackle both seats and releases well on it. Its a foot of line. probably the easiest bit of line to replace in my whole kit. I replace my depower line every season, whats one foot more? I really really really hope I get enough riding in to wear 1/4" amsteel enough to warrant the replacement!

The stopper ball is always oriented up when shackled into the ring that way. The line is short enough to both never go over the hook and never twist so the stopper ball is always right there on top. I like the line short as it also keeps the depower throw usable and the pull point tends to sit just off your hip giving you the desired freedom of movement without it dangling/fouling.

Sorry I bought that shackle a number of years ago.

Edit: kinda interested to do a comparison between the DIY and Dynabar. Have very little invested interest in proving either one better and if I get the chance hope to do it honestly.


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 Post subject: Re: Warning: if you try sliding hook you will never go back.
PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 9:37 pm 
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Location: UK
I'm obviously missing something, but can somebody explain to me what the point of a sliding hook is? I can see that maybe it helps a little riding blind if you don't have a very long depower rope, but removing the ability to unhook and shackling yourself to the kite seems a little extreme just to help do something that nobody really does for any length of time.


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 Post subject: Re: Warning: if you try sliding hook you will never go back.
PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 9:46 pm 
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makes toe side MUCH easier and more relaxed, especially in the waves


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 Post subject: Re: Warning: if you try sliding hook you will never go back.
PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 9:50 pm 
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It is not the best design for someone that unhooks a lot, but depending on the set up you use you can still unhook.

You are not shackling yourself to the kite. Your QR still works.

I like the freedom of movement I get from s sliding hook. It seems like a more natural or less restrictive ride than a fixed hook. You should try it for yourself and see if you like it. I bet that most kite boarders would not go back to a fixed hook as there equipment of choice. the Jaybar is a no brainer easy choice that works well. Obviously, there are custom setups you could make if you are into making your own equipment.


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 Post subject: Re: Warning: if you try sliding hook you will never go back.
PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 12:21 am 
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Im sure there are TT riders and snow kiters who like the sliding systems but I think its safe to say that Its primarily of interest to those riding surfboards in waves. Unhooked waveriding is super cool, but isn't all that feasible in most real world wave conditions. The sliding system give the ability to actually face the wave in onshore conditions and just generally frees up the torso to move with less restriction from the kite. Thats a pretty big deal.

If you don't ride a surfboard in even small waves you are indeed missing something!


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 Post subject: Re: Warning: if you try sliding hook you will never go back.
PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 1:12 am 
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Nice starsky. It is very similar to what I have been doing.

Richard: The snap shackle I got was from westmarine. As far as I remember it was about $40 or so...might be $60 I cannot remember exactly, but it was definitely not $120.
Seems to work just fine. I guess I should double check the load thingy on it tho. :-)


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 Post subject: Re: Warning: if you try sliding hook you will never go back.
PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 3:57 am 
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Location: PASA Level III Instructor FL- OBX - MI - the world
I've been a big fan of the Dynabar ever since the prototype...5 years ago (?)..and still using one of them!. One of the things that really kept me interested in Dynabar (aside from the functionality of it) was that the guys at Jay Factory demonstrated from the beginning, and continue to demonstrate, an on-going improvement of their product based on real world experience and feedback from riders all over the world - nothing is "perfect" but they keep trying!. So I take my hat off to them for that effort...and the latest products are very nice indeed. They have really stuck to their mission and there seem to be a lot of happy Dynabar users out there now.

I think it's great that a few individuals have worked out their own solutions for a sliding hook, but in general I think the Dynabar is a very cost-effective product for somebody who just wants to buy something off the shelf that is good quality and works well. I'd say that this applies to 95% of those interested in a sliding hook. For some time now, when people consult with me about equipment I have been very confidant telling them to spend a few extra dollars and buy a Dynabar instead of the standard run-of-the-mill spreader bar/pad combo...because it is very cost effective in that respect.

Not to start an argument, nor beat a dead horse about the "halyard shackle" approach - and this topic was covered many time in the past - but I think it is fair to mention that "not all halyard shackles are the same"...some are better quality than others and some release more easily than others...and most importantly, some do not release easily under load. And it not necessarily the case that the more expensive it is the easier it will release. Marine grade hardware tends to be very expensive at any rate.

On sailboats it is common practice to use a fid to trigger the shackle when even a little tension load is on it...so I just mention this as a caveat to people wanting to use shackles. As most people know the load generated by a looping kite with a body dragging in the water can be significant.

ride safe!


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