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 Post subject: Re: The Surf kite from Epic Kites
PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 1:30 am 
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Dimitri M wrote:
Dj A-Ron
The reason I made this new post about the "SURF" kite is so I can get the immediate attention for people that love to surf and are looking for a surf kite or know about how a surf kite should perform. And by doing so I can gather more information concerning the wave kite prototype we have now.
By posting this thread only on the EPIC KITES 3G topic would make it invisible for the kiters that are looking for a surf kite. Now you guys know that EPIC kites is coming out with a pure WAVE kite called the "SURF".
If people don't like this thread or any other EPIC thread please do not click on it. It is as simple as this. Go to the MOST SEXY topic instead. By the way I am going there next after I am done typing this.
:thumb:


That make sense I guess... You just end up getting a lot of negative posts in your thread from the people who don't like all the epic threads but what your doing seems to work for ya so go for it :thumb:


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 Post subject: Re: The SURF kite from Epic Kites
PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 2:02 am 
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bgkiter wrote:
Is this going to be a re-branded Trigger with a brand new "awesome" colour scheme? if so, then, you can start another new thread something like "Thinking of pulling the Trigger on a new SURF kite??" :lol:


No its going to be something completely different. havent seen a shape like this kite yet. The blade kites are awesome but every kite from momis hand is tuned to the likings of the brand. And this will give any kite a totally different feel/characteristics. Saying Re-branded.. is false and not true.

This topic is there not for pure epic enthousiasts or the trolls. But for Wavekiters to give pointers about this kite. What the riders want to see in a wave kite. Ofcourse there is a basic idea for this but maybe the actual riders have pointers/whishes for special characteristics for a wave kite.
This is also the reason why its in a special thread. the word surf will probably draw attention from wavekiters.

personally i think its cool a brand is asking for input from potential riders. Lets keep this a positive thread.


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 Post subject: Re: The Surf kite from Epic Kites
PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 2:05 am 
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Thank you Dj A-Ron.
Just got back from the MOST SEXY topic. I am full of energy now.
Any way, you have to understand that the KITEFORUM or any forums is a double edge sword and of course I am going to get a few negative remarks but 90% of the replies are positive. But once again If these people don't want to read the EPIC thread then don't click on it.
You don't know how many PM messages and emails I am getting from different people world wide reading this post. Telling me about what a great idea the SURF kite is + naming it the "SURF" clean and straight to the point. Then all the inputs I am getting from some of these surfer guys is incredible. Thanks guys.
Also the reason I don't want to show you the kite yet is because it has no graphics on it, only the shape, but again the shape is very different than what we have now.


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 Post subject: Re: The Surf kite from Epic Kites
PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 2:39 am 
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It has been repeated several times in this thread that the thread is about getting feedback from wave-kiters what they want in a wave kite. Yet no actual request has been made for feedback, like asking specific questions or actually saying "hey guys, please give us your feedback".

On top of that it feels kind of useless to give feedback without comparison as the shape "unlike anything we have done sofar" is something that only a very small number of people have seen. Also the prototype seems more or less done, what difference would any feedback (if given) do?

Some people in the thread talk about the "Surf" like if they tried and tested it and it was avaliable, even though it is supposedly on prototype stage in need of input from wavekiters around the world.

There is no actual feedback present about wavekites in this thread, except Dimitri claiming the "surf" kite will do all those things a wavekite should (or should it? no discussion present about it...) There is only feedback on how annoying these threads are becoming and I think the reason is that no feedback was actually requested. If you are so interested in feedback, why not do a quick questionary on google docs and post it, and then have a discussion on what a wavekite should be like. It is really very easy to make such a form.

promoting a new product is fine. Using the word "Surf" to attract wavekiters is certainly a straight forward strategy. But do yourself a favor and avoid filling the thread with meaningless marketing blabber, give us something to actually talk about. If you lure us with such irresistible bait as the word "surf" you better give us some reward at the end of the line. Just saying you made (are making?) a kite called SURF and then saying it will be great in surf, without any real info of the kite, won't do.. Because the idea of a kite only for surf sure ain't a new one...


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 Post subject: Re: The Surf kite from Epic Kites
PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 3:42 am 
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Its not an end version and still open to changes. It can happen that 20 prototypes will be build before releasing it. The first prototype might be good, but with input it might get even better. as simple as that.

i would expect waveriders to have certain wishes for a wave specific kite. And all Dimitri wants to know what those are.


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 Post subject: Re: The Surf kite from Epic Kites
PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 5:12 am 
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If you make a completely SURF specific kite...
.. then you will be free to change the Renegade, to make the changes I asked for!
The Epic Renegade was designed as Dimitri's surf kite first and an all arounder second.
The Blade Trigger was designed as a "do it all" freeride kite and got a surf attachment point added several years later, not a redesign overhaul.
The Trigger is meant to cover the territory of both the Screamer and the Renegade.
Blade reduced the Trigger and Vertigo kites to just the Trigger.
.
So the Renegade is..three strut, medium aspect, turns pivotally, relaunches quickly.
To change it to surf only, I would think that it could be made with fatter struts and maybe a thicker LE to make it stronger to handle the stresses that waves put on a kite when it goes down, and a slight change in shape/profile/tips to make it drift fantastic and help it relaunch even faster.
No longer a need to make it jump, so that consideration can be left off, and it can be made to turn as fast as possible with no consideration for beginners.
So...drift, depower, quick pivotal turning, wave proof construction.
There's a basic start.


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 Post subject: Re: The Surf kite from Epic Kites
PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 5:18 am 
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Surf kite! Awesome!
When can we try it??????


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 Post subject: Re: The Surf kite from Epic Kites
PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 10:42 am 
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I love the Renegades already in the surf but can see the need for a surf dedicated kite, I even asked Dimitri if he was going to make one last autumn.

The Renegade turns on it's own axis quite well already but I'm sure that could be improved, lower aspect, deeper profile so it sits a little further back in the window so drifts better?
BUT still keep the upwind ability of the Renegade....= more waves!

The Renegade has always amazed me at how big it can still boost, especially the smaller ones but as Oldnbroken mentions above there will be no need for this with this kite.

Keep the colours bright, big surf here often means shitty dull weather also, I want a kite that can be seen miles out...not a black kite!


I've often thought you could have two designs of "surf" kite, one for fast turning following the kite style, the second more of park the kite and drift it while you concentrate on the riding!

Maybe the Renegade and the Surf could cover both of these styles...the Renegade is a great "follow the kite" style of surf kite...The "Surf" could be a more drift style?

I tend to go more for the former but when conditions suit I love the drift.

A vid from last Feb, mostly on 5&7 Renegades



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 Post subject: Re: The Surf kite from Epic Kites
PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 12:45 pm 
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Quote:
It has been repeated several times in this thread that the thread is about getting feedback from wave-kiters what they want in a wave kite. Yet no actual request has been made for feedback, like asking specific questions or actually saying "hey guys, please give us your feedback".
On top of that it feels kind of useless to give feedback without comparison as the shape "unlike anything we have done sofar" is something that only a very small number of people have seen. Also the prototype seems more or less done, what difference would any feedback (if given) do?
Some people in the thread talk about the "Surf" like if they tried and tested it and it was avaliable, even though it is supposedly on prototype stage in need of input from wavekiters around the world.
There is no actual feedback present about wavekites in this thread, except Dimitri claiming the "surf" kite will do all those things a wavekite should (or should it? no discussion present about it...) There is only feedback on how annoying these threads are becoming and I think the reason is that no feedback was actually requested. If you are so interested in feedback, why not do a quick questionary on google docs and post it, and then have a discussion on what a wavekite should be like. It is really very easy to make such a form.
promoting a new product is fine. Using the word "Surf" to attract wavekiters is certainly a straight forward strategy. But do yourself a favor and avoid filling the thread with meaningless marketing blabber, give us something to actually talk about. If you lure us with such irresistible bait as the word "surf" you better give us some reward at the end of the line. Just saying you made (are making?) a kite called SURF and then saying it will be great in surf, without any real info of the kite, won't do.. Because the idea of a kite only for surf sure ain't a new one...

My dear Mr.AndKite sorry you feel that way, but again this is not the final prototype kite. I might have to go with 5 or 10 more prototypes before I do the final production run. Right now I have something that you might be very impressed with but I am not done with it. I have plenty of room if I need to make it even better or change things around. So if you want to put some of your input on what you want the SURF kite to look like please do. For example what color and graphics you want the SURF kite to look like, what are the sizes you would like to see, what lines you want to be able to use on the kite. Are you looking at a kite with a small LE and small Struts....and the list continues.
By the way I also have this on GOOGLE + and on FACEBOOK and few other forums.

Thank you for your positive attitude. :thumb:


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 Post subject: Re: The Surf kite from Epic Kites
PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 12:59 pm 
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Dimitri M wrote:
My dear Mr.AndKite sorry you feel that way, but again this is not the final prototype kite. I might have to go with 5 or 10 more prototypes before I do the final production run. Right now I have something that you might be very impressed with but I am not done with it. I have plenty of room if I need to make it even better or change things around. So if you want to put some of your input on what you want the SURF kite to look like please do. For example what color and graphics you want the SURF kite to look like, what are the sizes you would like to see, what lines you want to be able to use on the kite. Are you looking at a kite with a small LE and small Struts....and the list continues.
By the way I also have this on GOOGLE + and on FACEBOOK and few other forums.

Thank you for your positive attitude. :thumb:


Well, since my post there has actually been some feedback on what features a surf kite should have, and just now you actually start asking relevant questions about what aspects you want feedback on, so perfect! We are back on track to what you apparently wanted this thread to be about. Since you still have prototyping left, feedback/opinions feels useful.

I am not following Epic on google or FB, so i have not seen nor have any opinion about those channels. Im talking about KF.

On the topic, i think colors are on lower priority compared to kite characteristics. Fast, direct turning on little bar input, easy one handed steering is monumental for me. LE should not be to thin, it needs to pop out of the water easily and not collapse. I have noticed a 10m is what i end up using mostly, even though i want to ride an 8. 12 usually gets too slow. The kite should have low "momentum" i.e. not keep moving if you decide to change direction. The reo is fenomenal in this respect.

Whatever you do, put lines that dont stretch. Getting seriously fed up with stretch. Utopic demand, i know, but still...


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