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 Post subject: Re: Warning: if you try sliding hook you will never go back.
PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 6:25 pm 
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Its a good point that the Jaystore system is a tried and tested system and the others are cobbled together with varying potential results.
I also bought the spreader bar and the two clips and the pulley and the twisted D-shackle and the rope for my system on page 1 and it cost not that much less than the most basic Dynabar would.

On page 1 you can see that I cut part of a Q/R and connected it to the pulley, so my release is the same as using the original Nobile chickenloop.

With the Cabrinha Q/R I have used a 6mm locking carabiner and ground the end flat so it is the same thickness as the Cabrinha part, so with a Cab kite I could take a 6mm swivel and do the same, to be able to use the Cabrinha Q/R and include a swivel.

I'm interested in all these systems, so I'm going to get one of the other type of Wichard style releases which has a hole through it and you release it by pushing a wedge shape into the hole and try to find the most reliable Wichard system for releasing when you want it to and not when you dont. I already have one of the Wichards as shown in the photo by Kamikuza.
EDIT: having seen the price of the other Wichard, I reckon its too expensive to be considered and will work out the best system I can find for the cheaper one.

http://www.mailspeedmarine.com/photo/10 ... 7071_1.jpg


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Last edited by ronnie on Wed Apr 10, 2013 7:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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 Post subject: Re: Warning: if you try sliding hook you will never go back.
PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 7:17 pm 
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Location: PASA Level III Instructor FL- OBX - MI - the world
Whether they are fid triggered or pull-chord triggered, the other issue to consider with respect to using shackles - in general they are designed to be used on boats where there is minimal sand, grit, etc. From my own experience it is important to check and lubricate the shackles on a regular basis (we usually use McLube Sailkote - which is essentially a dry lubricant).

Also, the sailing shackles are designed to be used on a sail with a metal "cringle". I am not sure what the possible downsides are to attaching directly to a piece of Dyneema, or to the plastic coated C-loop, but I imagine the stresses are increased by the sharper angle of contact (?)


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 Post subject: Re: Warning: if you try sliding hook you will never go back.
PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 7:54 pm 
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I have two of the side release shackles here, one has a swivel and one does not.
Both seem fine when you try them at home, which is how they fool you into trusting them.
The failing in use is the salt and sand (as was said above) and pull forces that can be much higher than you ever dreamed, when put to the test in real life and death kiting situations.
I like a short chicken loop, to allow for greater bar throw also, so I understand the urge to go that way.
The other thread for the Mystic hook release system is all about this release safety subject.
Should be an interesting conversation as a few people get them and test them.


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 Post subject: Re: Warning: if you try sliding hook you will never go back.
PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 11:04 pm 
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There is a stainless steel panic snap with a swivel.

The stainless one is hard to come by but it does have a better release system. It would be a possible release.

http://paracordmalaysia.blogspot.co.uk/ ... chive.html


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 Post subject: Re: Warning: if you try sliding hook you will never go back.
PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 11:25 pm 
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Dude?

Dont wanna sound blunt, but those are crap. keep em on a dog leash.

All the shackles posted so far are stainless and the recommended one is samurai sword material compared to those. It has a 880kg working load and 1500 kg break rating


Last edited by Starsky on Wed Apr 10, 2013 11:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Warning: if you try sliding hook you will never go back.
PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 11:32 pm 
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Wow the French economy could recover if everyone bought a Wichard shackle!


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 Post subject: Re: Warning: if you try sliding hook you will never go back.
PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 9:49 am 
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Starsky wrote:
Dude?

Dont wanna sound blunt, but those are crap. keep em on a dog leash.

All the shackles posted so far are stainless and the recommended one is samurai sword material compared to those. It has a 880kg working load and 1500 kg break rating


Not quite with you?

Its stainless steel and how are you going to generate an 880kg pull on the harness, let alone a 1.5 tonne load to break it?

Fair enough it doesn't say what grade of Stainless so it might be A2 - might be 316/A4.


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 Post subject: Re: Warning: if you try sliding hook you will never go back.
PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 10:47 am 
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The steel of the Wichard products is top notch stainless, the steel in those used in the pics with the dog leashes are almost always made in china and pretty suspect. In fact the poster states it can be hard to even find a stainless one. For contrast all the decent marine ones are ONLY made in stainless.

The ones in the dog leash pics have a metal on metal cuff release. There is way too much contact surface to maintain a low friction and reliable release force in high load and marine environments. I've held a few like that in my hand and its simple enough to see the difference. Even in the pics it's simple enough to see the difference in the finish of the steel. Those things look almost Crome and rough edged from casting, where a good one has no variance in any of the tolerances and the fit and finish is impeccable. Even if you manage to find one made to proper spec from good steel, the friction force of metal on metal from that release is suspect. The wichard is out there, it's known tried and tested. who makes those other ones?


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 Post subject: Re: Warning: if you try sliding hook you will never go back.
PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 11:24 am 
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This guy says he has been using what seems to be a brass version on the water, so it would be interesting to see what he has to say about the practicality after using it for some time. It does look like it could be affected by sand.

I think if a good release system was invented for the Wichard it would be the better solution because it is lighter and built for the marine environment. Both snap shackles are currently pull operated, so a release system for the Wichard with a push action would be a plus. As I said, I will do some tests and see what I can come up with for the Wichard release method.



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 Post subject: Re: Warning: if you try sliding hook you will never go back.
PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 1:39 pm 
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Ah the peter lynn owners! I recognize... I was one. Kinda miss those kites, and those dudes are the king of tinkerers. Lends it some credability in my book actually!!

That brass one looks way way way more up to the task in comparison to the dog leashes. I still wonder how well the metal cuff design would do in sand and especially salt over time. (I personally ride mostly fresh water, but am considering the masses)

I am a little judgmental regarding the previous pics of the same design. I mean its a bracelet and dog leash site where the shackle is totally incidental. I know it was posted as simply an example, but as an example to the DIY crowd, those are suspect at the least.

The brass one looks decent, but Im going to stick with the decade + worth of trial by many others that stands behind the gated wichard. You can at least see how it would be less susceptible to sand and salt. I'd like to be clear, Im not telling people to go out and get one. I just happen to have all the parts sitting around so threw that set up together. It cost me a grand total of $1.99

Incidentally, it swivels, works as a push away release and reset is just click shut instead of also having to hold the release mechanism open like he does.


Last edited by Starsky on Thu Apr 11, 2013 2:34 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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