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 Post subject: Re: The Surf kite from Epic Kites
PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 1:12 pm 
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Location: OUTER BANKS (NC) USA. Owner of EPICKITES
Quote:
On the topic, i think colors are on lower priority compared to kite characteristics. Fast, direct turning on little bar input, easy one handed steering is monumental for me. LE should not be to thin, it needs to pop out of the water easily and not collapse. I have noticed a 10m is what i end up using mostly, even though i want to ride an 8. 12 usually gets too slow. The kite should have low "momentum" i.e. not keep moving if you decide to change direction. The reo is fenomenal in this respect.
Whatever you do, put lines that dont stretch. Getting seriously fed up with stretch. Utopic demand, i know, but still...

AndKite now we are talking.
Thank you so much for all these inputs. If you have more ideas feel freed to email me at: dimitri@epickties.com. This is what most of the people are doing so they can keep it unknown to the public.
Just to let you know some of the ideas you mention are already on the SURF prototype. Now concerning the lines I totally understand your point. But what I was asking was the length of the lines. The SURF will come with 22 meters standard lines that are on the bar, but I am thinking of adding 20 or 18 meters extra in the bag. For example the RENEGADE models come with an extra 15 meter lines, the JUDGE comes with an extra 18 meter lines and so on. Also was thinking of adding also an extra set of bigger CL for the SURF kite. All these goodies will go inside the SURF bag.
Once again thank you for your inputs.


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 Post subject: Re: The Surf kite from Epic Kites
PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 1:54 pm 
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I personally love the 18m lines over the 15 or 22m lines supplied with the Renegade...18m seems the perfect compromise for speed and power.

But you already know that :wink:


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 Post subject: Re: The Surf kite from Epic Kites
PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 2:41 pm 
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Dimitri M wrote:
Quote:
[size=85]The SURF will come with 22 meters standard lines that are on the bar, but I am thinking of adding 20 or 18 meters extra in the bag. For example the RENEGADE models come with an extra 15 meter lines, the JUDGE comes with an extra 18 meter lines and so on. Also was thinking of adding also an extra set of bigger CL for the SURF kite. All these goodies will go inside the SURF bag.
Once again thank you for your inputs.


Dimitri, why not simply supply the bar with 18m lines plus 4m extensions? Well and perhaps the "standard" 15m additional set with the SURFs (and Renegades)? This way you can still have only one bar for all kites in the lineup.

Gotta keep things simple!!! You can't just change the naming convention from 2010/2010/20%% into 3G/%G etc, only to start having a gazillion of V1/V2/V%-s within the same "G"!!! It's even more confusing than before. Same goes for the bar - why would you want to have a whole bunch of different "same" bars for every kite if it only takes one?


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 Post subject: Re: The Surf kite from Epic Kites
PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 6:08 pm 
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It seems like it would make the most sense to start with the shortest lines anyone would want and then have 2 or 3 extension sizes for the most flexibility for individual preference.


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 Post subject: Re: The Surf kite from Epic Kites
PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 6:31 pm 
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I hate having lines with lots of extensions on them...I used to have a kite with 20+4m extensions and they were alway a pain to unwind..far prefer one length of lines on the bar.

Having said that I reckon 18+4m would work well :thumb:


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 Post subject: Re: The Surf kite from Epic Kites
PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 7:28 pm 
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windsuks wrote:
I hate having lines with extensions on them...always a pain to unwind.
Far prefer one length of lines on the bar.
+1


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 Post subject: Re: The Surf kite from Epic Kites
PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 9:01 pm 
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Personally I look for kites with light bar pressure that are easy to fly one handed. Right now I am flying RRD Religions MkII, and you would have to convince me to change by providing a compelling product that has better surf kite performance, and or better value...meaning price. I like the Religions for fast turning, drift, light bar pressure and build quality. As far as line lengths I prefer 20M lines. Regarding bars... I like the Naish Universal bar which I feel has the best below the bar depower cleat on the market today. I don't like having a clutter of depower straps and or cleat/line that are flapping in my face when I kite. These are the key features, and preferences I look for in a surf kite and bar.

I hope this information helps!


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 Post subject: Re: The Surf kite from Epic Kites
PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 9:59 am 
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Guys once again thank you so much for all your inputs. We use to have 20+4 meters for the EPIC kites on our 2010 models but a lot of people were complaining about the extensions. Some of them were loosing them, some others had problems with them getting stuck and so on. So for 2011 and 3G models we decided to make the lines 22 meters and add 15 meter lines for the RENEGADE models and 18 meters for the JUDGE models. So they can change their 22 meter lines and replace them with the 15 or 18 meter. The only kites that we kept the extensions because it was easier to do so for the factory was the RACER and the INFINITY that have 5 meter extension lines that you can add on to the 22 meters.
I have been getting a lot of emails about the SURF kite and I think the best thing to do will be to add an extra set of 18 meter lines like we are doing with the JUDGE kites. This makes it easy for the factory so they don't make any mistakes.
Just so you know right now the SURF kite has these characteristics:

1) Good drifting kite so you can kite strapless with no problem.
2) Amazing relaunch-ability. People think the Renegade is one of the easiest kites to relaunch well guess what!!! I am going to make sure the SURF kite is even easier to relaunch.
3) If you have seen the quality of the EPIC kites you know how durable they are and how good the quality is. Well for the SURF I am going to make sure they are even more reinforced then what we have now. Of course they are going to be heavier kites but who cares, since it is going to be a wave kite and you need as much reinforcement as possible for when these waves come crashing on the kite.
4) Also the kite is a very fast pivoting kite and the bar pressure is very light but just enough so you can feel where the kite is and you can move very easy with one hand.
5) The tricking part is to make the kite not getting too much power when turning, so people that like to kite strapless don't get ripped off their board. (this is one on the things we are working on in order to make it even better)


One of the main things you will loose with the SURF kite that the RENEGADE kite has is the jumping. But again who cares about jumping.....this is a kite made to surf the waves.
:thumb:
Now concerning having the DEPOWER SYSTEM bellow the bar on the CL. It's impossible to please every body. Out of 10 people only very few of them like to have it under the bar. Most of the kiters like to have the DEPOWER system above the bar so it doesn't get messy around your hands and waist.


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 Post subject: Re: The Surf kite from Epic Kites
PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 2:27 pm 
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I believe you are better than anybody else to know what the requirements to a Surf Kite are.
IMO I tested Best Cabo, Airush Wave and Cabrinha Drifter and found out the Drifter the one that is better than the other two.
Best Cabo is the second and has the best color! Airush wave seems a do-it-all entry kite like Cabrinha Vector. Also, I believe it is too powerful to be a wave kite.

Again as a wave kite it has to drift, kiteloop with ease to recover power and it shall have restricted wind window. A plus, a stronger structure to colapse under some waves and still in one piece.

Colors? I like black kites, they are easier to repair and stay clean.

Hope being of some help.


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 Post subject: Re: The Surf kite from Epic Kites
PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 4:50 pm 
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AlexandreBorges wrote:
I believe you are better than anybody else to know what the requirements to a Surf Kite are.
IMO I tested Best Cabo, Airush Wave and Cabrinha Drifter and found out the Drifter the one that is better than the other two.
Best Cabo is the second and has the best color! Airush wave seems a do-it-all entry kite like Cabrinha Vector. Also, I believe it is too powerful to be a wave kite.

Again as a wave kite it has to drift, kiteloop with ease to recover power and it shall have restricted wind window. A plus, a stronger structure to colapse under some waves and still in one piece.

Colors? I like black kites, they are easier to repair and stay clean.

Hope being of some help.


Switch Method 2 is a great wave kite, and is very competitively priced. I would check it ouf.


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