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 Post subject: Re: i wear my IKO tshirt with pride
PostPosted: Sat Apr 20, 2013 10:05 pm 
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Joined: Thu Oct 21, 2010 5:26 pm
Posts: 41
Forget to tell that i am a IKO instructor since 2004


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 Post subject: Re: i wear my IKO tshirt with pride
PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 2:39 pm 
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Joined: Sat May 22, 2010 3:20 am
Posts: 211
TommyDelly wrote:
What kind of fees do you have to pay to IKO?

Also is there any other licence than IKO? I mean if you want to have your own kite school, do you have to be IKO certified or is there any other organization, where you can get your licence?



In the United States, there is PASA (Professional Air Sports Association). They certify instructors and schools. They used to offer kiteboarder level certifications for non-instructors including insurance but that has changed. PASA insurance only covers instructors and schools now.

The nice thing about PASA is it includes certifications for hang gliding, paragliding and other air sports so if their customer service was poor, they would lose not only kiteboarding instructors and schools, but also tons of other revenues.

I'm certified through PASA and thought about getting IKO as well for going abroad but I doubt I will now.


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 Post subject: Re: i wear my IKO tshirt with pride
PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 4:51 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2004 1:40 pm
Posts: 667
Location: L.A. & Ventura Counties, CA
PVITfrumBYRAM wrote:
TommyDelly wrote:
What kind of fees do you have to pay to IKO?

Also is there any other licence than IKO? I mean if you want to have your own kite school, do you have to be IKO certified or is there any other organization, where you can get your licence?



In the United States, there is PASA (Professional Air Sports Association). They certify instructors and schools. They used to offer kiteboarder level certifications for non-instructors including insurance but that has changed. PASA insurance only covers instructors and schools now.

The nice thing about PASA is it includes certifications for hang gliding, paragliding and other air sports so if their customer service was poor, they would lose not only kiteboarding instructors and schools, but also tons of other revenues.

I'm certified through PASA and thought about getting IKO as well for going abroad but I doubt I will now.

If you think you're "insured", perhaps you'd be kind enough to post a copy of the supposed "insurance" policy so that people who actually READ these things can determine if it ACTUALLY covers what you think it does.

While you're at it, you might also post a copy of any LIABILITY RELEASE which might be REQUIRED to have been signed in order for the supposed "insurance" policy to be valid.

Or, simply post any links that PASA provides to the above.
.
Richard M.
Malibu Kitesurfing - since 2002
(310) - 430 - KITE (5483)
http://www.MalibuKitesurfing.NET
kfRichard@MalibuKitesurfing.NET


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 Post subject: Re: i wear my IKO tshirt with pride
PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 11:24 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2005 9:44 pm
Posts: 174
Location: New Zealand - owner of HellBoardriders.com
kiwimike wrote:
seriously you bunch of pricks at IKO i want my money back.


Classic! Good on ya Mike for making a stand. It is difficult if you are a school to make a protest against things in the industry when they are wrong.
I established www.Learn2Kitesurf.com to offer Kite schools and individual instructors alike, + dealers and shops regardless of brand or affiliation a way to market and network collectively for FREE.
It is a project that needs feedback and content from members to run it well.
But it is off to a good start as is. One thing we are not doing is licensing. Keeps us out of the $$ conflict issue.

Hey Mike.
Did you notice any business drop off by not being IKO?
I have been teaching professionally since 1999 and never felt I needed an IKO endorsement of my skills. I do see value in instructors courses for those who have yet to gain any experience.
But every year I am contacted by IKO instructors looking for work, they always say they are qualified but when asked for references have 99% of the time just completed a very expensive Instructor course by a visiting UK couple and have never taught kiteboarding ;) Some have also only just learned to ride from the same instructors.
This seems well off form for IKO examiners.
Anyone else experience this?


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 Post subject: Re: i wear my IKO tshirt with pride
PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 5:51 am 
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Joined: Wed Feb 22, 2012 3:06 am
Posts: 25
strange to hear this again, I took one kiteboarding lesson in 2007 (but didn't actually get into it until last year) and my instructor said something similar to PVITfrumBYRAM;

"The nice thing about PASA is it includes certifications for hang gliding, paragliding and other air sports"......

Aaaaaaa NO. :nono: :nono: :nono: Mythbusters where are you?
I am very new to kiteboarding, but I have been a dues paying and rated hang glider pilot since 1979, a certified hg instructor, and a hang gliding / paragliding club officer responsible for paying for hang gliding / paragliding site liability insurance annual premiums and special event fees. I make the checks out to USHPA, (United States Hang Gliding and Paragliding Association). If you want to fly a regulated and insured paragliding / hang gliding site in the US, you must be a current USHPA member and have the appropriate USHPA rating. No one has ever showed up with a PASA paragliding / hang gliding insurance and rating card at our flying sites, if they had we could not permit them to fly. PASA has absolutely nothing to do with HG or PG. Maybe there's some BS (boisterous statement) in their mission statement about pg and hg.

Where is this rumor that PASA has anything to do with HG or PG coming from? Regarding kite sports though it's good to hear that there is an alternative to IKO.


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 Post subject: Re: i wear my IKO tshirt with pride
PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 5:56 am 
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Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2008 3:22 am
Posts: 160
business did not change after quitting iko. in my school i keep one iko instructor who can give students one of those crappy cardboard riders card if they ask for it. this happens about once a month. i am seriously pissed with iko. 4 nights of staying up late ringing them. at one stage i thought about flying to the DR to try to get my money back.
it is only beginner riders who will do the iko instructor trainer course, anyone who has been kiting for a while knows what a ripoff iko is. an instructor coming off the instructor training course is marginally better than someone with nothing at all. i train my own instructors now and try to keep the same ones each year to maintain a high standard. we dont get alot of students in my location so it is important to get them indepent so they can get gear off me if they decide to take the sport up.
learn2kitesurf.com looks auesome but i tried to sign up and got the error message

error: Call to undefined method CommunityModelProfile::getProfileTypes() in /home/learn2ki/public_html/plugins/jfbcprofiles/jomsocial.php on line 562


Anabatic_co_nz wrote:
kiwimike wrote:
seriously you bunch of pricks at IKO i want my money back.


Classic! Good on ya Mike for making a stand. It is difficult if you are a school to make a protest against things in the industry when they are wrong.
I established www.Learn2Kitesurf.com to offer Kite schools and individual instructors alike, + dealers and shops regardless of brand or affiliation a way to market and network collectively for FREE.
It is a project that needs feedback and content from members to run it well.
But it is off to a good start as is. One thing we are not doing is licensing. Keeps us out of the $$ conflict issue.

Hey Mike.
Did you notice any business drop off by not being IKO?
I have been teaching professionally since 1999 and never felt I needed an IKO endorsement of my skills. I do see value in instructors courses for those who have yet to gain any experience.
But every year I am contacted by IKO instructors looking for work, they always say they are qualified but when asked for references have 99% of the time just completed a very expensive Instructor course by a visiting UK couple and have never taught kiteboarding ;) Some have also only just learned to ride from the same instructors.
This seems well off form for IKO examiners.
Anyone else experience this?


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 Post subject: Re: i wear my IKO tshirt with pride
PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 7:13 am 
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Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2001 1:00 am
Posts: 29941
Location: World (KF Admin)
I just had a discussion with a friend...and he told me there is a certified instructor, who cannot even land a front roll an jumps 1.5m high...

WTF???

An instructor has such a responsibility...buying a license doesn't make him legit.

This is BAD !!!


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 Post subject: Re: i wear my IKO tshirt with pride
PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 8:59 am 
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Joined: Fri Sep 11, 2009 3:15 am
Posts: 1515
I would guess a lot of cashed up customers are those that have just left college /uni and in order to get some of their parents cash so IkO does not want to make things too difficult (ie a realistic amount of practical experience and ability). I read part of the new IKO manual recently and it is way better than it used to be but I think the prerequisites are not anywhere near enough. Instructors continue to get their random friends to fill out their lesson cards and send em back to IKO as far as I know.

To do the course nowdays you need to have been kiting for 1 year, and be able to go upwind /land any jump( the more complex of the requirements). + do 3 days shadowing with an instructor as an assistant. The thought of someone with above experience teaching any of my family members horrifies me. IKO supported a super expensive course (advertised) where you could become an instructor without any previous kiting experience at all before year before last - haven't seen that advertised since though.

The fact is that kiting for one year means you could be dealing with someone that has hardly kited at all - hardly any experience, just able to get though the prerequisites and course requirements which are simply not enough.

My IKO instructor course back in the day was spent with highly experienced riders looking sideways at the instructor many times, and not surprisingly - he could hardly kite himself it turns out later. I got scammed.


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 Post subject: Re: i wear my IKO tshirt with pride
PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 12:34 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2007 2:00 am
Posts: 472
Toby wrote:
I just had a discussion with a friend...and he told me there is a certified instructor, who cannot even land a front roll an jumps 1.5m high...

WTF???

An instructor has such a responsibility...buying a license doesn't make him legit.

This is BAD !!!


C'mon, rose tinted glasses off. Have you not noticed the bi yearly creep of the "take it from me, I'm an instructor brigade" most notable on this site before dishing out some scripted cliche most notable by being out of context and inapplicable and or irrelevant and all seeking credibility.
This is by no means a small percentage of those who choose to teach/instruct. All this and the man with one eye is better than the one with none but both still crap at judging distance.

We had an instuctor locally maybe 8 or 10 years ago who had passed the required course at the time yet was still unable to stand on a board. That does not mean he/ she would be any less able to pass on required information to someone else. Of course there are the few instructors who may be really good at what they do and are easily identified as they may do so for no financial gain.
Oops, those are friends...so standards are out the window.
Whats that we constantly hear?... the bleating of "get a lesson" and "we want standards"


So, that will be pot luck all round. As it has always been. Standards also being a major limiting factor in development and improvement amongst other things in the commercial world.

So of course he/she is legit. They have paid to display. There is no legal requirement for this but it is sought after to secure business. This is pyramid selling ffs!! As far as i see it you all deserve each other IKO came up with the product kiwimike bought into it as do those that pay to play. The method has been around since the first sheep was fleeced yet most of these folk still think they are the first...
Of course none of this matters when the ego needs stroking....take it from me....


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 Post subject: Re: i wear my IKO tshirt with pride
PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 3:32 pm 
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Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2011 9:54 am
Posts: 297
Location: Como Lake - Italy
Years ago, here in Italy VDWS was the same for windsurfing: the way to become instructor was two weeks (one pre-course, described as "highly recommended" but not mandatory, one the actual course, mandatory). After the two weeks course, you had to work for about 3 months in a VDWS school to obtain your final certification.
In the brochure a clear message informed you that (more or less, I can't remenber the actual words) "you don't have to be a champion to become an instructor: it is enough to stay on a plane and jibe".
This means in my home spot quite everyone is a potential windsurfing instructror...


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