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 Post subject: Re: Epic Infinity & Bullshit Light Wind Claims
PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 4:50 pm 
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yeah...so?
I happen to agree with him. I think you are a nut job.


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 Post subject: Re: Epic Infinity & Bullshit Light Wind Claims
PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 5:30 pm 
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Supa - You move closer to stalker status with every post.
Do you have a thousand pics of Dimitri plastered on the wall in your "special room" ??
Let it go man....let it go.
.
.


Last edited by Oldnbroken on Tue Apr 30, 2013 11:54 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Epic Infinity & Bullshit Light Wind Claims
PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 8:35 pm 
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no comment...


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 Post subject: Re: Epic Infinity & Bullshit Light Wind Claims
PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 10:49 pm 
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Dimitri M wrote:
By the way SupaEZ so you know this video was made in "Naples" Florida and not on the Outer Banks. So what is your next excuse!!!!


YOUTUBE:





Original video posted march 15th 2013
He is asking me what is my next excuse !!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:
All i see in original video from 6:43 to 7:08 is.............(the truth)

.........him completely jibing the SUP to the other tack to return to beach
.........him not losing balance and falling to his elbows on SUP to break his fall 1/2 way into the water
.........him keeping the camera nice and even with the horizon the whole time he jibes (no fall)
.........him fading his video at the moment the V3's wingtip touches the water and lays on it's back

Additionally when cross referenced with Mr.Latino video from other angle the truth also so obvious

So shame on such fabrication Mr. D.

You were definitely challenging me to scrutinize your Naples video
Well i did it successfully and you lose miserably with your "excuse"
I cannot tolerate lies said about me by you and/or untruths to the nice people of Kiteforum

Please stop Mr.D
Take this as a friendly advice
The truth will set you free


Last edited by SupaEZ on Wed May 01, 2013 7:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Epic Infinity & Bullshit Light Wind Claims
PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 11:44 pm 
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Dimitri M wrote:
I would like to thank you for doing this because you don't know how many INFINITY kites we have sold for the past 6 months, it's crazy. Maybe I should give you guys a commission for all the great work you have done with this thread.
SupaEZ wrote:
knotwindy wrote:
supa,
how much is Dimitri paying you to keep this thread up?

i want a piece of it for this post, too.....


2-4% commission max per kite sold...i feel it is over the top generous....the BS check is in the mail

And one more INF kite just got sold just from this single post....it's crazy :crazy:

........Hey knotwindy will you take 1% ?..... :cash: ................................................................................

Haha! Good one Supa :lol: . It's crazy :crazy: , but I'm pretty sure two "Screamers", one "Renegade", a Quarter Pounder with Cheese, some Saganaki, and Halloumi, has just been sold because of THIS one post.


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 Post subject: Re: Epic Infinity & Bullshit Light Wind Claims
PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2013 1:25 am 
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So...let me get this straight?

You're all saying Dimitri flew his kite in low winds and was real pleased with himself

Nice one, how cool is that?

:thumb:

I liked the video where it looks like no wind. Thats right up there with that video of the guy flying the kite 360 degrees from a few years ago... Awesome!!!

:thumb:


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 Post subject: Re: Epic Infinity & Bullshit Light Wind Claims
PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2013 1:29 am 
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flyingweasel wrote:
So...let me get this straight?
Dimitri flew his kite in low winds and was real pleased with himself, how cool is that? :thumb:
Exactly!!! ...You hit the nail right on the head. Nice job!! :mosh:


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 Post subject: Re: Epic Infinity & Bullshit Light Wind Claims
PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2013 7:03 am 
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Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2011 4:45 am
Posts: 35
For those of you that don't want to read the full thread this is a TRUE and ACCURATE SUMMARY:

You lied
No I didn't

You're mean
No I'm not

I fell
No you didn't, see video

You're a troll
No I'm not

Everyone hates you
No they don't

No one trust you
Yes they do, see emails

Thank you you're doing me a favor
No I'm not

You lie
No I don't

The last time I read a 138 page thread on this forum was DWFTTW...wow what a difference.


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 Post subject: Re: Epic Infinity & Bullshit Light Wind Claims
PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2013 7:41 am 
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flyingweasel wrote:
I have been away and missed this topic.
It looks like it was busy...anyone care to sumarise?

Thanks for asking Flying w. Here's a summary:

There are a LOT of bullshit claims by kite companies regarding light wind capabilities. NO kite will perform in < 7-8 knots. The owners and distributors of the Epic Infinity are among the worst offenders. To claim the Epic Infinity can perform in "2-4 knots" (even if it is with a SUP) is ridiculous and a blatant lie and leaves the company wide open to claims from disgruntled users.

WIND GRADIENT & FETCH
The use of anecdotal evidence to try to support a generalisation is always suspicious. Epic's owners continually posting videos & images of kites flying in conditions without whitecaps and claiming "5 knots" are misleading; obviously wind gradient http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wind_gradient and/or short wind "fetch" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fetch_(geography) are involved.

RELATIVE KITE PERFORMANCE
The ONLY way to gauge the RELATIVE performance of kites in light winds is to fly them side-by-side, with similarly experienced riders and similar boards.

LIGHT WIND KITE DESIGN
It is simply not possible for the Epic Infinity (V1, 2, or 3) to surpass significantly the performance of every other light wind kite in existence. There is NOT enough energy for ANY kite to perform in "2-4 knots of wind". With BIG light wind kites, various modifications have been tested over many years: Fast-turning big kites need to be fat (i.e. lower aspect ration & long middle struts), but the payoff is poorer upwind ability and slightly inferior low-end. Narrower (high aspect ratio) kites go upwind better, but turn more slowly. e.g. Flysurfer's "Speeds" are very narrow, but very SLOW turning. There is no such thing as a fast-turning, ultra-low end, exceptional upwind, easily relaunchable kite with a lot of range; there's always a trade-off.

EPIC INFINITY'S DEEP LUFF CURVE CAUSES PROBLEMS
Laughingman wrote:
1. (for me) it sat too far back in the window making edging up wind almost impossible unless you were on a light wind specific board
2. and if you were on a light wind board it was easy to lose speed control since edging against it was near impossible … but it still yanked me downwind because it sits so far back in the window.
The problem with designing a ~16m kite (Infinity V2 and V3) for "light winds" is that the luff curve has to be very deep to "milk" as much low end as possible. This causes the kite to sit VERY deep in the window, leading to the problems "Laughingman" outlined, i.e. poor upwind ability, a tendency to yank the rider downwind, extremely poor top-end, and poor ability to absorb gusts.

For obvious reasons, a ~16m kite will NEVER have the low end of a larger kite. The Epic Infinity probably shouldn't even be called a "light wind kite"; 16m kites are more "light-medium" wind kites. To make up for the lack of surface area, the Infinity's designers have deepened the luff curve, with obvious NEGATIVE tradeoffs.

Epic Infinity V1 & V2 INFERIOR
The Epic V2 Infinity was tested alongside other light wind kites (e.g. North Dyno 18m) and was found to be inferior.
davesails7 wrote:
I've been riding a 2011 18m Dyno for the last few months and have been really impressed. I've ridden it while others rode…Epic Infinity…, so can compare low end by how I was able to get on the water vs. the others. Who knows what actual wind speeds were up in the air at the kite. I think side by side comparison is much more helpful than endless videos of a kite riding alone on glassy water.
vs. Infinity: Dyno was stable in the air, never fell out of the sky for 4 hours of light wind riding. Two guys with Infinities were struggling to keep their kites in the air most of the time.
Objective testing of previous versions of the "Infinity" showed it had inferior power to other kites in light winds: http://www.thekiteboarder.com/2011/05/e ... te-review/
Dimitri M wrote:
I have video of the Infinity V2 in action from 5 to 10 knots real soon. Did I say 5 knots!!!! No way..... !
The Infinity V3 failed in 8 knots (see below). The V2 performing in 5k? Complete bullshit.

Epic Infinity V3 INFERIOR
The INFERIORITY of the Epic Infinity V3 was demonstrated conclusively in a head-to-head comparison with the 19m Core. It failed THE major criterion of light wind kite performance: the ability to get the rider going early in LIGHT winds.
SupaEZ wrote:
I would have written (Dimitri M) a check right there and then if his kite was better than mine...but it was not. I did get going earlier in the light wind that we had 7-9k max avg 8k. But he needed 7-11kn avg 9k.......which never happened.
SupaEZ wrote:
His kite needed more wind to get going.

I was 100 ft away from beach on a full plane in 8k. He was 10 ft away from the beach on a sub-plane working hard not to end up on beach also in 8k. Right before we crossed (dead onshore wind) … Made sure he saw me...i looked into the white of his eyes. Did a 6 ft air forward 1 1/2 transition with kite downloop to toeside and planed off on the other tack

For the short time we were both able to go out i did 5 type jumps/ transitions. Many with looping the kite effortlessly.

He was only able to get one 4ft air back roll transition and landed in an insufficient amount of water. He was then grounded.
End of story.

…the issue here is who is BS "ing" who here about LW performance.

I felt like i was riding against someone with a smaller size kite.....OOOPS i was !

Epic's Bad Sportsmanship & Fundamental Dishonesty
Recently, EPIC's ~16m V3 Infinity challenged a 19m kite to a "duel". Epic lost. During the duel, despite having plenty of opportunity to use line extensions and a surfboard, Epic refused to do so, "because (he) didn't need them". But to subsequently use this as an excuse for losing is …. pathetic and fundamentally dishonest. This fundamental dishonesty was compounded by outright slander, claiming the opponent had to swim out to get started.

Epic Infinity V3 Will LOSE Even More Low End
The Epic Infinity V3 is still being revised:
DimitriM wrote:
…we are still working on perfecting the High end of the INFINITY v3.
It is IMPOSSIBLE to give a kite more high end without compromising low end. Hence, the Epic Infinity V3 will become even more INFERIOR in light winds.

Epic Lies & Exaggerations
Epic's owners are well known to stretch the truth, e.g.:
Dimitri M wrote:
Infinity V2 has the power of a 19 meter but turns like a 14 meter. :thumb:
Compared to the Core19m kite, the Epic Infinity V3 was noticeably INFERIOR; it certainly didn't have the "power of a 19m".

Until this vid surfaced, Epic was claiming light wind domination at this event. The inferiority of the Epic Infinity in light winds is demonstrated, as is the fundamental dishonesty of Epic in trying to portray otherwise. Epic struggling and then collapsing into the water while the Cabrinha LW kite blasts past. Compelling. Hilarious! And a savage indictment of Epic and its marketing. The Epic Infinity can NOT fly in ?7/8 knots, let alone 2-4 knots.

SUP-kiting in 9 Knots
Despite the "2-4" knot claims, the Epic Infinity CANNOT perform on a SUP until ~ 9 knots.
Dimitri M wrote:
Quote:
Poster: PVITfrumBYRAM
....Personally I like your kites, I just don't like the approach as much. That's great you are getting people stoked at how well the kite can fly in such light conditions, but the reality is it was more than 2-4 knots. Maybe it was that light during a lull on the water and that's why you dropped the kite in the water, but there was a steady breeze.
As for the gentleman with the 21 meter foil, he was inexperienced and could barely fly that kite in 8-10 mph on a different day.
Hello Paoloe or should I call you Mr.PVITfrumBYRAM? I wish I knew who I am talking to. You said on your post above that you like my kites but don't like the approach as much!!! What do you mean by that?
I remember that day Chris Moor who is the manager of theKitty Hawk Kites store and probably your boss …. Are you Paulo the one who works and teaches at KHK on RRD!!!
:thumb:
UKSurf wrote:
Translation: If you question my over the top claims again I will tell your boss who sells my kites

In addition, at a recent visit to Cocoa Beach, Epic's owner claimed the ability to SUP-kite in:
Dimitri M wrote:
3 to 6 knots
In response, the following was posted by a knowledgeable local:
SupaEZ wrote:
... the Patrick Air Force Base windmeter reading (is) just a few miles upwind of Dimitri: Wind was SSW 200 degrees...that is why the ocean is so glassy...i should know i live here 30 years. He was out between 2 and 4 pm.... we see clearly that the wind was always more than........... 10 mph :happybirthday: .......those are government's wind meters....very accurate... :surf: :sun:

Despite the claimed performance in "2-4" or "3-6k", quite clearly, the Epic Infinity cannot perform on a SUP until >10mph (9k). This has been confirmed by reliable objective observers and wind speed measurements. It is interesting to note the hostile and personalised nature of the attacks by Epic

EPIC SLAMS BLADE
Not only does Epic stretch the truth about the Infinity, it also unfairly slams its competitors:
UKSurf wrote:
Dimitri M wrote:
The difference from the INFINITY V2 vs the FAT LADY is that the INFINITY v2 turns faster and has better pop. But the power is piratically the same after testing them.
Now the INFINITY V3 is something different.
:thumb:

Why did Momi design an inferior kite for Blade? :roll: I honestly think this claiming your kites are superior to everyone else's will only backfire. If it is better at one thing then it will be worse at something else, most people appreciate that kite design these days is about finely balanced trade-offs NOT one kite being better than another.

Light Wind Showdown
While the Epic Infinity V3 was shown to be INFERIOR to the Core 19m, a formal light-wind "showdown" amongst the biggest claimers (Flysurfer, Epic) and others (North, Core, Blade, Ozone, Slingshot, etc) would be one way to clear this up once and for all.

FAKE FORUM NAMES, ABUSE, & BONHOMIE
Epic's supporters admit to creating fake personas on this forum, replete with the same retarded spelling, grammar, and syntax. The fake personas push Epic products & abuse anyone who DARES to question their claims. These fake personas, e.g. Kiteus Maximus (below), personally attack and vilify, unless, of course, you agree to stop criticising Epic kites:
Kiteus Maximus wrote:
Whatever dude. You created me. If you don't like me then stop creating me.
Kite2Heaven wrote:
PMU - you really are stupid if you are resorting to walking backwards with a kite !!! … Otherwise "ALL" wind readings are BULLSHIT just like yourself !!
Of course, walking backwards with a kite is not a recognised way of testing its low-end, UNLESS you are making claims that it can fly in "2-4 knots". It would be EASY to test Epic's "2-4 knot" claim by putting up the Infinity in a school hall or similar & walking backwards at the standard walking velocity of 2.7 knots. The lies promoted by EPIC are even more appalling when they are couched in the fake bonhomie, oh so *HILARIOUS* pics of goats, and apparently friendly banter, not to mention the overt aggression and threatening behaviour of the "Kite2Heaven" persona.

STOP THE BULLSHIT: RETURN THEIR KITES
There IS a simple way to put to rest ridiculous claims by Epic or any other kite company: BUY THEIR KITES. If they don't perform in 2-4 knots on a SUP or whatever - let alone below 7-8 knots (and they won't), then return them. A "class action" against these companies, perhaps using this forum as a meeting point, will force these companies to be more truthful.

Ignore the lies. Ignore the propaganda.
No kite can perform under 7-8 knots, let alone 2-4 knots.


Pumpy ……………………… :pump:


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 Post subject: Re: Epic Infinity & Bullshit Light Wind Claims
PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2013 9:43 am 
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Thanks for the summary...
However that looks to be almost entirely anecdotal, and so, as you say...not to be trusted!!!
Therefore I wont bother reading it to avoid the propaganda and lies.
Top tip there!

Check out this kite horizontal 360... How cool is that!
There was a better one with a big kite but I cant find it, can you?
Who knows that video?

http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=m42PIpmg ... 42PIpmgVe4

Also, who has a link to that guy riding on a big board that looks like its no wind
Great vid!


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