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 Post subject: Hell with those kites. Lets clear out idea about bars first.
PostPosted: Sun May 12, 2013 12:31 am 
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Okay, if the general idea of the "airstyle" kites is clear & doesnt include a lor of different options, versions & variants....

* The bigger kite - the better. The longer "hand time" - the better. The "slower" turns - the better.
Okay thats quite straightforward & clear.
===============================

But what about the bars? Im stllkinda confused... and here is my thoughts (some of which is probably wrong!) which i would like to resume here just to hear your guys opinion of possible "wrong" understanding of the "airstyle bar" concept.

Briefly:

1. As soon as you start to progress you quickly realize that "default" bars (no-matter-which-brand) isnt "fit" the idea of airstyle. Because:

a) Most of the bars have very "limited" trimmer. But for airstyle we need a bgger kite + big(long) trimmer to be able to de-power it to the max. (Am i right here?)

b) Most of the "default" bars (haha.. basically not a single one now) on the market have the "Micro Loop" installed.
============

So, am i right here?

a)The best solution for AirStyle will be to buy a "racing bar control system" (which is basically the default bar + extra-long trimmer).

So far i guess there is only 3 main manufacturer who can sell you a "race bar":
- OZONE
- Cabrinha
- North
----------------

b)But, the ONLY (right?) manufacturer who make "Micro Loops" is the NORTH. Plus even the NORTH discontinue to produce "holed" bars in 2010.


SO, finnal options are quite limited to me... (or am i missed something?):

You can:
a)Still ride on the "default" bar without long trimmer\MicroLoop. (Donno how good u can progress here really).
b)Buy a RaceBar (+ forget about MicroLoop)
c)Buy a RaceBar (+buy a 9.00 USD "North" microLoop upgrade kit and do something with it. Btw, im not ure if its suitable with 2012-2013 NORTH bars. Or can you add it to any other brands bar?)

D)Become the master of custom modifications. Its not a secret that you can actually modify (almost?) any default bar into a "racing" bar. Might be hard, but doable.


Whats is you guys opinion?


And a personal question for Toby: Man, lets imagine that you just somehow "lost" you 19m Dyno kite & your bar now. What are you steps to get a new set of everything? Will u buy old North bar? New model without ML? Or what?



PS: So far i use 16m Cabrinha with a custom made "racing" bar (with almost 1m long trimmer).
The bar was made & used by a one of the best Russian course race pro-rider. But the bar lack: MicroLoop and the "leash" connector. And i dont like neither of this.


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 Post subject: Re: Hell with those kites. Lets clear out idea about bars fi
PostPosted: Sun May 12, 2013 1:29 am 
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I would put the bar in the second place of importance. First you have to get a small board. Toby if I remember correctly uses 128/38 for his 95 kg weight. I use 126/37 for my 75 kg. So you can handle the bigger kite and still initiate a good pop. I would say most kites have sufficient depower. A lot of bars have stoppers which do the job. Because I ride in choppy waters I use smaller kites because I just can't hold the edge like in the flat water and I stick to the stopper because it makes me feel safer. My point is until you sort out the board the bar is not "thaaaat" important except for the stopper.


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 Post subject: Re: Hell with those kites. Lets clear out idea about bars fi
PostPosted: Sun May 12, 2013 2:06 am 
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marlboroughman wrote:
I would put the bar in the second place of importance. First you have to get a small board. Toby if I remember correctly uses 128/38 for his 95 kg weight. I use 126/37 for my 75 kg. So you can handle the bigger kite and still initiate a good pop. I would say most kites have sufficient depower. A lot of bars have stoppers which do the job. Because I ride in choppy waters I use smaller kites because I just can't hold the edge like in the flat water and I stick to the stopper because it makes me feel safer. My point is until you sort out the board the bar is not "thaaaat" important except for the stopper.



Hmmm.... maybe that is the "crossroad" where i take the wrong path actually.
Because so far i have no problem with high jumps (i just learning for like 2 months).

But so far my biggest problem is that any gusts above 20-20 knots is a real struggle for me (weight 87kg.... 92-95 i guess with harness & lifesave vest).

Plus because we have a choppy\waves here on Boracaya 99% of the time: BAsiccaly i jsut cant ride more than a 35-55mins. Its just way to exhausting for me (no... im in a good fitness condition).

So, i thought that my issue was the fact that i cant de-power my kite (whenever it was a 14m or 16m). So, i got the "racing bar" from my father, but the wind drops here on Boracay and i couldnt test it yet.
==============


Yeah, the size of the board matter a lot. Ive heard about it from Toby. But ive seen his board in my hands. It doesnt look UBER small at all.

Right now i have that board: http://www.futurekiting.com/detail-8-f12.html
in a size of 134*42. And i cant say its a huge one really.

If i remember correctly, somewhere here on the forum Toby mention that he uses 135cm board now (and all the time).


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 Post subject: Re: Hell with those kites. Lets clear out idea about bars fi
PostPosted: Sun May 12, 2013 1:37 pm 
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Imba: you got that right!

The bar is key for Airstyle ! Specially the Microloop!
That's why I ride North kites! Because of the bar! The kite is second choice...and sicne I hate trimming and techy stuff, I ride the North kites, since I simply attach the bar and have to move max. 1 knot and I can go ride.
Lucky me, I tried the Dyno as the only big kite from North and I found my kite!

If you want to be a good Airstyler, the ML is a must. Makes way more tricks possible!
Sure, some people will say it is not, but tell them to do my tricks...and that's why you don't see these tricks from others, they don't have the ML ...

Quote:
And a personal question for Toby: Man, lets imagine that you just somehow "lost" you 19m Dyno kite & your bar now. What are you steps to get a new set of everything? Will u buy old North bar? New model without ML? Or what?


Dyno 18...

I would try all to get an older North bar (2012-2009) first. Or an older Core bar, they had a ML as well.
Then an 2011 Dyno.

Somehow I would get it all...so I don't need to think about an alternative!

But the Flysurfer do have a great lift and hangtime...then maybe get an older Iron Heart to have a hook, and somehow attach a small loop onto the bar.

Quote:
Toby if I remember correctly uses 128/38 for his 95 kg weight.


correct.


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 Post subject: Re: Hell with those kites. Lets clear out idea about bars fi
PostPosted: Sun May 12, 2013 2:49 pm 
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Can you explain the importance of micro loop?


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 Post subject: Re: Hell with those kites. Lets clear out idea about bars fi
PostPosted: Sun May 12, 2013 3:14 pm 
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Basically it is important to keep the bar down to have a powered up kite.

just watch my videos!

http://www.airstyle.tv/watch-the-trailers/

that explains it all!

just look closely to the bar and how fast I get in and out !
Try to imagine the same with a stopper or even without!


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 Post subject: Re: Hell with those kites. Lets clear out idea about bars fi
PostPosted: Sun May 12, 2013 3:28 pm 
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don't run before you walk bro master the board off first it's the foundation of big air then get your micro loop


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 Post subject: Re: Hell with those kites. Lets clear out idea about bars fi
PostPosted: Sun May 12, 2013 3:42 pm 
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Okay the idea of MicroLoop was clear (for me at least) before & its clear now still.

What i still didnt get is: What is the "trick" to be able to ride on big kites and not to be overpowered to the level, then the riding upwind is just physically HARD (because you need to put all your muscle strength to struggle with chop & wind).

Toby do you use just a regular "North" bar with like (as ussual) the de-power line of 5-7cm as any other default ones? You have some kind of long\sport alike de-power trimmer setup?
-------


So my theory was that the general idea here is to ride the big kite, but be very de-powered (20-30-50cm leght trimmer?) to be able to control it.


I dont get it! My edge limit when i riding my 14m is 22-25 knots. But i have no idea how could i possibly ride the same conditions on 18m for example.

SO im trying to get the "magic" here is the trimmer or the smallest possible board....?


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 Post subject: Re: Hell with those kites. Lets clear out idea about bars fi
PostPosted: Sun May 12, 2013 4:27 pm 
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I guess the trick is all!

Small board
Techique (riding slower) edging hard
And the long depower.

Just get my DVD and it all is explained on it.
Plus all the inspiration needed !

BTW - long depower:
In the early C kites days everyone said they don't have depower..,
I always had a long depower way, and always a bigger range...no wonder when the others had just 15 cm line....


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 Post subject: Re: Hell with those kites. Lets clear out idea about bars fi
PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2013 2:05 am 
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very simple Imba keep the kite low, and by low I mean nearly touching the water.

Think about it this way. Suppose you are in a tug of war. And you hold the rope above your head and try to win. You can't gain leverage. Now suppose you angle your body close the ground and pull with the rope just a few inches above the ground. Now you can exert your entire strength against the rope.


Kiting is the same thing. When the kite is high you can't use your entire strength on it, you'll get knocked off your edge. When the kite is low you can use every muscle in your body to hold it down.

Some call this technique "edging" which I think is not as clear as my tug of war metaphor about what is going on. Sure the board edges, but the reason it edges is because you have more leverage.

By keeping the kite low, you transfer your center of pull down to your hips instead of trying to hold down all that power with just your arms and back


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