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 Post subject: How to clip in using a climbing harness
PostPosted: Tue Jun 04, 2013 7:05 am 
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Location: Vancouver, Canada
What's the best way to clip in using a climbing harness instead of a kite specific harness?

I'm thinking that using a carabiner like this:
http://www.blackdiamondequipment.com/en ... -carabiner

and clipping it through both the belt and leg loop of the harness as if you were tying in. This way the chicken loop is held nice an low the same way it would be by a kite harness. I'm not sure if clipping a carabiner through as harness like that is considered dangerous in the climbing world or not, and if so why?

If it matters the harness I'm using is:
http://www.blackdiamondequipment.com/en ... ir-harness


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 Post subject: Re: How to clip in using a climbing harness
PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2013 7:54 am 
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Joined: Sun Apr 16, 2006 6:35 am
Posts: 116
Carabiners are definitely dangerous. If you are being dragged, even if only a little, you will not be able to get a biner unhooked. Period. Make damn sure you trust your QR. When climbing, you never want your harness to detach from the rope. When kitesurfing you want to be able to detach yourself from the rope (bar) at an instant's notice. Climbing gear is designed to never accidentally release, even if it is difficult to release when you intend it to. Kiting gear is designed to always release when needed, even if this means it releases when you don't want it to. You can not release from a carabiner that is under pressure, they are designed this way. Your primary QR should negate this fact, but they sometimes don't work as well as they should.

Some people used to ride with a snap shackle, occasionally with disastrous results, you could try that, but by the time you've bought a good snap shackle, you could have just bought a used harness on ebay. If you know your gear inside and out, have tested your QR, have the experience to deal with a kite dragging you in the event of not releasing, and think you can ride with a biner, great. If you are a beginner looking to save a few bucks and think you can safely ride with a carabiner, you are wrong.

Breaking wouldn't be a concern, as climbing harnesses are almost certainly held to higher standards than kiting harnesses. I had a very similar harness back when I used to climb. It was uncomfortable as sin, and when climbing you don't have weight on your harness for hours at a time. And you aren't submersed in salt water.

If you do decide to use it any ways, then clip in as if you were climbing- through the belay loop (the loop that goes through the waist and leg straps) OR through both the waist AND leg straps.

Will it break? Almost certainly not. But I wouldn't be surprised if you chaffed your balls clean off. And I wouldn't be surprised if you had an accident relating to being unable to release your kite.

I get it. $200 for a harness is a rip-off, but spend some time on ebay looking for an old kite harness. It will be worth the $40 you spend.


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 Post subject: Re: How to clip in using a climbing harness
PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2013 5:34 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jun 09, 2012 2:54 am
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Location: Vancouver, Canada
I have 2 different water harnesses so it's not a matter of cost.

This is for snow/land kiting though and I know it's quite common for people to use climbing harnesses there, especially on snow where there is very little pull required by the kite.

I would also consider the effort required to remove the donkey stick and then pull the kite out of the hook to be about the same as unclipping it from a carabiner. We are always relying heavily on our bar's safety.


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 Post subject: Re: How to clip in using a climbing harness
PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2013 5:58 pm 
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Joined: Sun Apr 16, 2006 6:35 am
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My mistake, I thought you meant for water use and figured you were a beginner.

I think as long as you are really confident about your QR working and have some experience kiting it is ok to use a carabiner. I used a carabiner for a while for a home-made sliding spreader bar. It alway felt a little bit sketchy, but so far so good.

Clip into the belay loop (the small grey webbing loop in the linked picture).


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 Post subject: Re: How to clip in using a climbing harness
PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 3:35 am 
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Posts: 560
For snow I like the carabiners with the wheel in them like this one - http://blistergearreview.com/gear-revie ... -carabiner

Make sure you are ok with the additional distance on the reach to the bar added by the beaner.

You might want to also consider the Ozone snow kite harness with a hook which is a lot like a climbing harness. I love mine for snow, it allows great freedom of movement, but mine is an earlier one without the hook which I would prefer (I would sell you mine if you are interested).


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 Post subject: Re: How to clip in using a climbing harness
PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 3:14 pm 
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Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2007 7:24 pm
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Location: Utah ish
Follow the route of the belay loop and clip a pear shaped locking beaner through the loop in the waist and the loop in the legs. When you are done the skinny part of the pear should be on the harness and the wide part for the chicken loop the gate should be up..

Climbing 101


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 Post subject: Re: How to clip in using a climbing harness
PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 1:53 am 
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Joined: Sun Oct 16, 2005 7:58 pm
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Location: MDI, ME
Clip into the belay loop. That's what they're made for.


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 Post subject: Re: How to clip in using a climbing harness
PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 6:59 am 
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Location: Utah ish
The belay loop is made to extend the belay device away from the body, to allow the rope to run freely and in plain site to be easily managed. For belaying, not kiting.

When you clip into the belay loop you have one more point of failure, the loop. If the five stitch block fails you lose your clip. If you follow the belay loop and clip the leg loops and belt you have to have both fail or the pear locker fail.

The belay loop also extends your reach placing your de power rigging father away.

Either way work just fine, try them out and see what works best.

If you plan on gliding one is a much safer system.


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 Post subject: Re: How to clip in using a climbing harness
PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2013 2:34 pm 
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Joined: Thu Dec 25, 2008 6:21 pm
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Hook in the way you and Billy B. describe , practise your safety release occationaly ,you will be happy with the results.


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 Post subject: Re: How to clip in using a climbing harness
PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2013 8:00 pm 
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Joined: Thu Nov 18, 2004 7:04 pm
Posts: 24
Location: Carbondale, CO
It doesn't matter where you clip... follow Billy's advice on that... but make sure and use a locking biner... and lock it! (even better - use an Auto-locker)

I do NOT recommend the BD coulior harness (or BD bod harness) for kiting... it does not provide enough support (specifically when on a hard tack) and will twist on your body.

I reserve my BD Bod harness for climbing, and most frequently use my BD Big Gun for kiting. The dedicated leg loops provide better support and reduce twisting of the harness.

Note: my advice may not apply appropriately for all kite/bar/safety setups... use your own judgement.


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