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 Post subject: wood glass mutant, channels !
PostPosted: Sun Jun 09, 2013 6:07 pm 
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Joined: Fri Apr 06, 2012 2:01 pm
Posts: 131
hi

just want to show off ( youhou ) my first board using vac pump.

it's a mutant, around 150x48 or so, so light wind ( there is no fucking wind here in quebec ).

used 3 times 1/8 inch ply ( baltic birch ) glued and screwed on the rocker table.

used 3 plys cause my inserts are .375 inch and i dont wanted to cut them.

epoxy rail all around.

rails / channels front and back ( real pain in the .....to do, but with a dremel tool ( well, the 14 dollars one from wallmart) ) works good.

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one layer of 6 oz glass on the bottom, colored one ( red pigment and grphite powder) plus paste ( epoxy and coloidal silica ) in the rails / channels to seal them cause they delaminated a littlte the plys off wood !

put on vac under 22 inch, hoping to unbag tonight hope the rails are nicely wraped.

BIG mistake : using polyethelene plastic from hardware store instead of special one ( no way to get a slick wrap, i'm going to hav eto sand it after ! ) no way to get it nicely into the channels...

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planning on just painting the to side not to ad to mutch stifness ! with my special salt grip.. and colored resin.


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 Post subject: Re: wood glass mutant, channels !
PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 5:16 pm 
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Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2003 6:30 pm
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Location: Traverse City, MI usa
Looks good, Hope you dont have voids, those thin sheets require more screws for even pressure. With that nice pump I would have done all the forming on a simple vac table, and skipped the glass bottom that would of saved a pound or two. Whats the wt on this board? And hows the flex?


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 Post subject: Re: wood glass mutant, channels !
PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 8:01 pm 
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Joined: Fri Apr 06, 2012 2:01 pm
Posts: 131
wt ?

flex is pretty hard ( i wold say a little more flex ten a regular tt ) more then a rogue wave : before glassing, after : still drying cant be rough on it or it will crack.

reason for screw before glass : had no pump . received it later. and, layup without rocker table allows to wrap glass around the edges.


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 Post subject: Re: wood glass mutant, channels !
PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 4:51 pm 
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Joined: Fri Apr 06, 2012 2:01 pm
Posts: 131
WT aha : 4,5 kilos deck !

here are some finished pics :

grip is going to wash out the salt in the water and became transparent after one or two rides.

there are fin holes in front for one center fin but i need a one inch fin, 2 inch ones are to big, maybe 3/4 inch.

can be ridden straped goffy or reg and strapless. going to try it 5 fins , 3 fins and with 2 surf fins as well till i find the right combination. flex is medium, there is glass only on the bottom so i'm awaiting something that will plane early in light wind and then flex in more wind ( and powered turns ).

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concave :
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channels :
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there is quite no rocker in the center, and rocker with flatend concave in front and back.
epoxy rails ( micro fibers and coloidal silica ) shaped and then wraped around with the glass from bottom.


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 Post subject: Re: wood glass mutant, channels !
PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 5:32 pm 
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Joined: Wed Nov 20, 2002 1:00 am
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Location: rhode island
it IS cool looking.
have fun.
-bill


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 Post subject: Re: wood glass mutant, channels !
PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2013 1:50 am 
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Joined: Fri Apr 06, 2012 2:01 pm
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rides like shit !

felt like i could not get going ! to mutch drag from the fins ? any ideas ( i know, it's a lot to ask considering only the pics.)

i did 2 boards one is good one is shit, outch !


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 Post subject: Re: wood glass mutant, channels !
PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2013 12:10 pm 
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Joined: Mon Apr 19, 2004 12:12 pm
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Location: Ontario
was under the impression that channels had to be done correctly in order for them to offset the significant drag they induce. The goal is to minimize the need for fins by inhibiting lateral slide of the board. Manufacturers that make it work are doing them to a min of .5 cm depth with sharp right angle corners to give a true vertical face perpendicular to the direction of slide. The shallow round edged channels on many boards with less R & D end up just increasing surface area drag without any of the desired benifits and really just reflect the following of trends without addressing the difficulty of incorporating this design feature into easy press manufacturing. Iddeally they should provide a clean release edge when water flows across them in one direction, yet a lateral grip edge when water flows across them in the other direction.

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Add the significant weight of your deck and you likely get a pretty sluggish feel.

In general, your outline is also pretty square. Some side cut in a stiff design helps you progressively diminish the surface area as you ride toward the tips and the board carves a little nicer. A square outline works for trying to generate a lot of instant pop in a freestyle board, but those boards have a lot of flex to help them ride a little nicer and are light enough to be agile.

Whatever, keep trying


Last edited by Starsky on Mon Jun 17, 2013 5:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: wood glass mutant, channels !
PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2013 4:30 pm 
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Location: rhode island
mattthieu wrote:
rides like shit !

felt like i could not get going ! to mutch drag from the fins ? any ideas ( i know, it's a lot to ask considering only the pics.)

i did 2 boards one is good one is shit, outch !



excellant.
a straight answer to a straight question.
how do your two boards compare with regards to :
surface area?
width?
nose/ tail rocker?
concave?
flex?
weight?

even though you may ride it like a mutant, its still more twin-tip than directional
you can easily get rid of the fins... even the channels to see what the benefits are.
but i suspect its more basic than that.
-bill


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 Post subject: Re: wood glass mutant, channels !
PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2013 7:00 pm 
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Joined: Fri Apr 06, 2012 2:01 pm
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they both come out of the same rocker table ! so, they are from the same blank, about 3 cm shorter and 2 cm narower for the mutant !

4 kg less for the mutant !

and one rides like a charm ( from 7 knots to 25, 12m, not one spray in face and upwind like a charm )

the second gets' on planning but no way to get upwind in the right direction and reverse not even way to get planing, feels slow, tryed it straped and strapless ( better but not good ).

i'l get rid of the fins, channels are there to stay ( no way to remoove them ! )

well, one deseign is winner, i'm going to stick to it,, going foam and carbon, same size, upscaled and downscaled.


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 Post subject: Re: wood glass mutant, channels !
PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2013 7:45 pm 
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Location: rhode island
mattthieu wrote:
they both come out of the same rocker table ! so, they are from the same blank, about 3 cm shorter and 2 cm narower for the mutant !

............... channels are there to stay ( no way to remoove them ! )

well, one deseign is winner, i'm going to stick to it,, going foam and carbon, same size, upscaled and downscaled.



the change in area sounds close to 1/2 ft^2
that could be a loss in lift of 20 to 50 lbs at 12 kts depending on trim
L=1/2 Cl rho v^2 A

i dont think the channels have much effect (pos or neg)
but a quick test would be to cover them up with tape or window caulk, just to compare.

?


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