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 Post subject: Re: What makes an attractive Kite destination ?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2013 1:37 am 
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Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2012 5:16 pm
Posts: 186
Location: Jamaica
Toby wrote:
I guess it is the flights then.
Look at Dom Rep...cheap flights and it gets packed...


But the question now becomes, what's the overall intrinsic value of the ticket ? You pay less , but you end up in a crowded spot. or you spend more and have a completely different kiting experience where you have countless spots to choose from ? :P So what would provide you with the overall best value


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 Post subject: Re: What makes an attractive Kite destination ?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2013 9:58 am 
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Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2007 1:56 am
Posts: 66
MattyRossJa wrote:
Metaphor_ wrote:
Jamaica has major human rights issues--I'd actively discourage people from going there until they reform the country.


Yes it does. That's a pretty ignorant reason. Every country has huge human rights issues. One of the reasons I chose not to continue living in England is because of that. Like Going to war when your citizens don't want it.

<snipped rant about colonial injustices>

I'm a white Englishman living in Jamaica. I'd encourage any and everyone to come visit. But I know you can get excellent package deals to Jamaica for around 1000-1500 pounds. I know quite a few canadians and americans who come once to kite and have come back every year since. the culture, the night life, the friendly people, the sun , warm water, cheap food and drink, amazing beaches etc. etc. etc.


Sounds like you're not aware of the rampant government-sanctioned homophobia in Jamaica. I'm not going to a country where gay people are thrown in jail for terms of ten years for consummating their relationship. Nevermind the rampant violence/crime and discrimination against minorities, people living with HIV/AIDS, women, children, and the disabled.

I'm quick to judge a location as an unsafe travel destination when human rights are being violated. There's no justification for hate or discrimination. If I were to take you up on your suggestion to come visit Jamaica, there's a good chance I would be thrown in jail, or murdered. I assume you're a good guy, and I wouldn't want to burden your conscience with another person's death.

My impression is that you'd prefer to ignore or downplay Jamaica's issues, and otherwise justify your choice of homeland. Which is fine, but please don't try to push an agenda of promoting Jamaica as a safe travel destination when it clearly isn't.

Overview of 2013 human rights report in Jamaica

Full human rights report here


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 Post subject: Re: What makes an attractive Kite destination ?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2013 10:25 am 
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Joined: Mon Jun 16, 2008 5:57 pm
Posts: 53
Location: Bath, UK
MattyRossJa wrote:
Toby wrote:
I guess it is the flights then.
Look at Dom Rep...cheap flights and it gets packed...


But the question now becomes, what's the overall intrinsic value of the ticket ? You pay less , but you end up in a crowded spot. or you spend more and have a completely different kiting experience where you have countless spots to choose from ? :P So what would provide you with the overall best value

I agree, you pay more for less crowded beaches \ spots and I for one have happily paid more to visit a country \ spot for less kiters on the beach. Taken two flights to get somewhere nice and away from the crowds and dangle monkeys
Less is more IMHO :)

My partner and I nearly came to the caribbean earlier this year, but costs made it prohibitive due to me losing my job :roll:
We went to Sao Vicente, Cape Verde for the 2nd year, a nice uncrowded spot that does not cost a fortune to get there

We're hoping to get to Brazil for a couple of months, in a couple of months, then maybe work our way over to your area, then maybe Mexico. But that depends on her work

Living in or visiting an area is two different scenarios


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 Post subject: Re: What makes an attractive Kite destination ?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2013 11:30 am 
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Joined: Fri May 24, 2013 10:06 am
Posts: 61
Location: West Auckland New Zealand
MattyRossJa wrote:
I need to find myself in NZ within a year ! I have posted a few vids of kiting in jamaica .. youtube name 'matthewefross'


longwhitecloud wrote:
Reliable consistent wind. Worldwide i guess Maui wins for this - triple effect - tradewinds - sea breeze and squashed between a volcano and mountain. Not the greatest place to ride in terms of slicks / big clean beaches by a long shot etc but I KNOW there will be wind and fuck loads of it, hmm I feel like booking up right now... Hawaiian air just started flying to nz!




Come to NZ bro you'll love it


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 Post subject: Re: What makes an attractive Kite destination ?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2013 7:13 pm 
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Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2012 5:16 pm
Posts: 186
Location: Jamaica
Metaphor_ wrote:
Jamaica has major human rights issues--I'd actively discourage people from going there until they reform the country.


but would you encourage people to go to Dominican Republic or Brazil ? both probably have far worse human rights issues than Jamaica.


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 Post subject: Re: What makes an attractive Kite destination ?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2013 7:15 pm 
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Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2012 5:16 pm
Posts: 186
Location: Jamaica
Wiski23 wrote:
MattyRossJa wrote:
I need to find myself in NZ within a year ! I have posted a few vids of kiting in jamaica .. youtube name 'matthewefross'


longwhitecloud wrote:
Reliable consistent wind. Worldwide i guess Maui wins for this - triple effect - tradewinds - sea breeze and squashed between a volcano and mountain. Not the greatest place to ride in terms of slicks / big clean beaches by a long shot etc but I KNOW there will be wind and fuck loads of it, hmm I feel like booking up right now... Hawaiian air just started flying to nz!




Come to NZ bro you'll love it


I don't doubt it . My brother is moving to Australia from the UK in 6 months. Definitely will be spending some time over that side !


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 Post subject: Re: What makes an attractive Kite destination ?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2013 7:22 pm 
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Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2012 5:16 pm
Posts: 186
Location: Jamaica
Metaphor_ wrote:
MattyRossJa wrote:
Metaphor_ wrote:
Jamaica has major human rights issues--I'd actively discourage people from going there until they reform the country.


Yes it does. That's a pretty ignorant reason. Every country has huge human rights issues. One of the reasons I chose not to continue living in England is because of that. Like Going to war when your citizens don't want it.

<snipped rant about colonial injustices>

I'm a white Englishman living in Jamaica. I'd encourage any and everyone to come visit. But I know you can get excellent package deals to Jamaica for around 1000-1500 pounds. I know quite a few canadians and americans who come once to kite and have come back every year since. the culture, the night life, the friendly people, the sun , warm water, cheap food and drink, amazing beaches etc. etc. etc.


Sounds like you're not aware of the rampant government-sanctioned homophobia in Jamaica. I'm not going to a country where gay people are thrown in jail for terms of ten years for consummating their relationship. Nevermind the rampant violence/crime and discrimination against minorities, people living with HIV/AIDS, women, children, and the disabled.

I'm quick to judge a location as an unsafe travel destination when human rights are being violated. There's no justification for hate or discrimination. If I were to take you up on your suggestion to come visit Jamaica, there's a good chance I would be thrown in jail, or murdered. I assume you're a good guy, and I wouldn't want to burden your conscience with another person's death.

My impression is that you'd prefer to ignore or downplay Jamaica's issues, and otherwise justify your choice of homeland. Which is fine, but please don't try to push an agenda of promoting Jamaica as a safe travel destination when it clearly isn't.

Overview of 2013 human rights report in Jamaica

Full human rights report here


Well if you're openly gay then I would accept that as a valid reason from an outsiders' perspective. I have quite a few openly gay friends, both male and female, who are not sitting in a jail cell. No one is justifying any crime. I was expressing that most of the best kite spots have human rights issues, many worse than Jamaica, like egypt, dom rep, brazil


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 Post subject: Re: What makes an attractive Kite destination ?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2013 7:41 pm 
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Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2012 5:16 pm
Posts: 186
Location: Jamaica
And for the record I have been living here for 20 years of my life, I think i'm a little more aware of the problems here than yourself thanks. It takes more than reading a study to know about what life is really like in any given country. Perhaps you could come visit sometime and use your expertise to help the country change for the better?

Metaphor_ wrote:
MattyRossJa wrote:
Metaphor_ wrote:
Jamaica has major human rights issues--I'd actively discourage people from going there until they reform the country.


Yes it does. That's a pretty ignorant reason. Every country has huge human rights issues. One of the reasons I chose not to continue living in England is because of that. Like Going to war when your citizens don't want it.

<snipped rant about colonial injustices>

I'm a white Englishman living in Jamaica. I'd encourage any and everyone to come visit. But I know you can get excellent package deals to Jamaica for around 1000-1500 pounds. I know quite a few canadians and americans who come once to kite and have come back every year since. the culture, the night life, the friendly people, the sun , warm water, cheap food and drink, amazing beaches etc. etc. etc.


Sounds like you're not aware of the rampant government-sanctioned homophobia in Jamaica. I'm not going to a country where gay people are thrown in jail for terms of ten years for consummating their relationship. Nevermind the rampant violence/crime and discrimination against minorities, people living with HIV/AIDS, women, children, and the disabled.

I'm quick to judge a location as an unsafe travel destination when human rights are being violated. There's no justification for hate or discrimination. If I were to take you up on your suggestion to come visit Jamaica, there's a good chance I would be thrown in jail, or murdered. I assume you're a good guy, and I wouldn't want to burden your conscience with another person's death.

My impression is that you'd prefer to ignore or downplay Jamaica's issues, and otherwise justify your choice of homeland. Which is fine, but please don't try to push an agenda of promoting Jamaica as a safe travel destination when it clearly isn't.

Overview of 2013 human rights report in Jamaica

Full human rights report here


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Profile
 Post subject: Re: What makes an attractive Kite destination ?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2013 11:25 pm 
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Joined: Sat Aug 29, 2009 11:25 pm
Posts: 2155
Location: The Naki
Build it and they will come bro. Do it in a manner that you are somehow helping the poor or miss-treated. Set up in locations that is relatively safe. Arrange transportation from airports, accomidation in known good hotels and reduce/limit the chance of risk for your customer.

If its epic conditions the adventurous will come..

You may be able to build yourself a sanctury of epic proportions and at the same time improve ever so slightly your part of the world.


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 Post subject: Re: What makes an attractive Kite destination ?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 19, 2013 1:24 pm 
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Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2007 1:56 am
Posts: 66
MattyRossJa wrote:
And for the record I have been living here for 20 years of my life, I think i'm a little more aware of the problems here than yourself thanks. It takes more than reading a study to know about what life is really like in any given country. Perhaps you could come visit sometime and use your expertise to help the country change for the better?


You are suggesting I go to a country that has laws that exist solely to discriminate against me and put me in jail. Change the laws and the native people's homophobic, hateful attitudes and I'll consider it.

I cannot bring myself to visit any country where:

    - Same-sex intercourse is punishable with a prison sentence of up to 10 years
    - The last prime minister used a song about burning and killing gay people as his party's theme song (Chi Chi Man by T.O.K)
    - The nation's only LGBT rights group operates completely anonymously for their own protection
    - 70% of the population does not feel that gay people deserved the same basic rights and privileges as 'other people'
    - Hundreds of the nation's LGBTI citizens have sought and been granted asylum in Canada, the US, and the United Kingdom

I don't need to live in such a country to recognize how bad all of the above is. I'm sure that like you've made clear, the above doesn't represent the experience of a straight white male in Jamaica. However, by all accounts, the above does represent the experience of a significant chunk of the population.

Back on topic, you wanted to know how to make Jamaica a more attractive kiteboarding destination and what the major selling points are of kiteboarding destinations. The best selling point of a good kiteboard destination, for me, is being somewhere where I won't be sent to jail, beaten, or murdered. Wind, weather, and temperature come second. Cheap, clean accommodation comes third. Good, affordable food and drink are fourth.


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