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 Post subject: Re: 2013 Ocean Rodeo Razor
PostPosted: Sat Jun 22, 2013 4:37 am 
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Joined: Fri May 09, 2003 2:50 am
Posts: 208
I always wonder at these complaints of "backstall problems" in various kites. In a majority of the cases it is simply a problem of rider input. Either you are riding with the kite too powered up for the conditions or being a bit ham fisted with pulling the bar in. To correct just lengthen the rear lines a few inches either by shortening the center line adjuster, adjusting at the knots on the rear leader lines, or adding pigtails. You can easily adjust all of the backstall out, but you do give up a little low end grunt as the kite creates maximum lift (power) right before the point of initiating stall.

When you first launch your kite and you are still on the beach, put your kite at about 11 o'clock and pull the bar all of the way in. If the kite starts flying backwards (stalling), you have too much power on. do this every time you kite and soon you will know exactly what feeling you are looking for to optimize your kites performance in the conditions.


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 Post subject: Re: 2013 Ocean Rodeo Razor
PostPosted: Sat Jun 22, 2013 7:22 am 
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^^^^ what beachboy said
Also remember to adjust, with every 5 knot increase in wind strength.
Usually this final trim can be done on the depower - depending on your personal wind range.. :)


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 Post subject: Re: 2013 Ocean Rodeo Razor
PostPosted: Sun Jun 23, 2013 9:24 pm 
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Joined: Wed May 05, 2010 12:05 am
Posts: 44
Windrider - 1) the kite was rigged and given to me to demo by an OR employee that was working for me as an instructor during christmas/new years ... he works closely with the design team so i'm assuming he knows how to rig OR kites. as i mentioned, i contacted my friend from OR and he gave me the 'neutral' rigging setup of which i'd figured out before he got back to me. of course, i was able to adjust my riding style to fly the kite, but i didn't like that i couldn't fly the kite agressivley coming out of a jibe/transition.

Kite2Heaven - 2) i started kiting in 2001 and i'm an IKO and PASA level 2 instructor since 2007. i can hold my own in high winds, waves, unhooked etc ... i know how to rig and fine tune a kite, if you actually read my post, you'll see that i did contact OR.
yes, i do like SS kites but always try my customer's kites when ever possible to have an idea on what other kite brands ride like - so far ozone kites have the best 'out of the box' feel to me.
to your second post, i know this.

Starsky - 3) see response 2.

Kamikuza - 4) see response 1

Beachboy - 5) see response 1 and 2. also, in the case of the flite, what good is a low wind kite if you've got to lose low end power in order to trim the kite to fly efficiently ... defeats the purpose.

any kite will fly ok in it's sweet spot, wind range. if this sweet spot is very narrow, as i found with the razor and flite, the kite in not that user friendly, in my opinion.
when i unhook on a fuel, rally or rpm i don't have to optimize my trim, i can just go for it!, unless i'm waaay overpowered ... a wide range.
when i test a kite, i always test the kite in low winds and high winds for it's given size ... any kite designed halfway decent will fly ok in optimal winds for it's size ... so will a bed sheet.
keep in mind the average kiteboarder is just jumping and riding toeside and have basic kite setup knowledge, so the more user friendly out of the box, the better.
to be honest, i was really hoping i'd like the OR kites, they have good price points, build and warranty ... dealing directly with my friend at OR would have been great!, but they did not work for me.


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 Post subject: Re: 2013 Ocean Rodeo Razor
PostPosted: Sun Jun 23, 2013 11:29 pm 
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Joined: Mon Mar 07, 2011 2:26 am
Posts: 275
Well 'Ocean Rodeo' your kites bacstalling and falling out of the sky - straight out of the bag, has cost you a potential Dealer.
Oh well better luck next time :)


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 Post subject: Re: 2013 Ocean Rodeo Razor
PostPosted: Mon Jun 24, 2013 1:44 am 
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Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2004 6:56 am
Posts: 3751
Location: Kailua, Hawaii, currently riding EH and OR kites (2013 Razor rocks!)
Kite2Heaven wrote:
Well 'Ocean Rodeo' your kites bacstalling and falling out of the sky - straight out of the bag, has cost you a potential Dealer.
Oh well better luck next time :)

Interesting conclusion. Sounds like a dealer already in bed with another brand. At least you're loyal. Hope you get the recognition from your existing partner. If you got a good thing going, then no reason to change it.

Good luck, Kite2Heaven.

exuma kitesurfing: I haven't experienced any backstall issues with my2013 Razor 12m in light, medium or high winds for its range. I would say that the Razor is at its strongest in the high and mid range. It's not as strong at the low end as my EH kites, but it has a much better high end. That's more or less the trade-off of designs. But, it has never fallen out the sky or backstalled even in very light winds (like today was). I think it's more of a "what you're used to thing" which is fine and expected. I'll try to find a Rally for a test ride and compare. We have a person here that sells SlingShot, but he's recently also started carrying OR.


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 Post subject: Re: 2013 Ocean Rodeo Razor
PostPosted: Mon Jun 24, 2013 1:57 am 
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Joined: Wed May 05, 2010 12:05 am
Posts: 44
guys, lets keep it friendly here.
if you would read both my post carefully, i don't think i ever said the razor was 'falling out of the sky', it's just for my riding preference and the average customer i get, the razor and flite were a a bit of a challenge to fly.
regardless of your kite brand preference, enjoy! and keep it safe.


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 Post subject: Re: 2013 Ocean Rodeo Razor
PostPosted: Mon Jun 24, 2013 1:58 am 
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Joined: Mon Mar 07, 2011 2:26 am
Posts: 275
Windrider - hmmm sure are some jelous gay kiters on here you dumbass :)
Hes the Slingshot rider bagging your favourite brand ... Credit where its due fuckya ;)


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 Post subject: Re: 2013 Ocean Rodeo Razor
PostPosted: Mon Jun 24, 2013 2:01 am 
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Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2004 6:56 am
Posts: 3751
Location: Kailua, Hawaii, currently riding EH and OR kites (2013 Razor rocks!)
Seems that the Rally is marketed towards Beginner and intermediate kiters: "The 2013 Slingshot Rally has increased stability and wind range for beginner to intermediate kiteboarders with a completely new five strut design" - http://www.realwatersports.com/2013-sli ... rally-kite. Whereas the Razor is marketed more towards "Advanced Freeride & Freestyle Performance!" http://oceanrodeo.com/products/razor. A beginner kite certainly should be designed to be non-backstallable, whereas a higher skill level kite would assume that you can control when you want to backstall and when you don't.

Perhaps this accounts for the difference? Maybe you should compare against the OR Prodigy?


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 Post subject: Re: 2013 Ocean Rodeo Razor
PostPosted: Mon Jun 24, 2013 2:07 am 
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Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2004 6:56 am
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Location: Kailua, Hawaii, currently riding EH and OR kites (2013 Razor rocks!)
Kite2Heaven wrote:
Windrider - hmmm sure are some jelous gay kiters on here you dumbass :)
Hes the Slingshot rider bagging your favourite brand ... Credit where its due fuckya ;)

Sorry Kite2Heaven. Your statement made it sound like you were the potential vendor deciding to not pursue OR because of what somewhat else reported. I thought it sounded like a thoroughly stupid statement. Sorry, my misunderstanding on that one. But your follow-up comments have proven my suspicion.
:roll:


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 Post subject: Re: 2013 Ocean Rodeo Razor
PostPosted: Mon Jun 24, 2013 4:14 am 
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Windrider - no worries its all good... I like the latest razor, it just might end up being my next 8m - Even if i have to adjust the backline and lose 1 minute of kite time and be forced to snap a twig on the beach :o my favourite measuring stick ;) to match sides :)


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