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 Post subject: Shorter Line Length and Standard Line Length
PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2013 7:34 pm 
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After doing a search I found some 3 year old discussions around short lines (like 10M to 15M). I would like to get some experiences from kiters using shorter lines (20M) versus the standard line lengths we now see.

My definition of standard line length is between 24M to 27M and only because all of my kites over the past few years have all come with between 24M to 27M lines on 50 cm bars. I am thinking about going to 20M as a line length but no lower.

Would appreciate any feedback from kiters who have switched to a 20M line on the kite they used to fly 24M to 27M lines on so I can hear about any significant differences.

- Turning speed increase
- Loss of boost height
- Likes or dislikes, etc...

Thanks.


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 Post subject: Re: Shorter Line Length and Standard Line Length
PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2013 10:06 pm 
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I have two sets of bars 20 and 30. Boosting? The same. I would ride 20m all the time because it makes your kite loops look better and lets you catch waves easier, except if I'm riding a thermal I use the 30s. That's basically it, the 20s arent high up enough to catch a strong thermal.


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 Post subject: Re: Shorter Line Length and Standard Line Length
PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2013 10:19 pm 
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edt wrote:
I have two sets of bars 20 and 30. Boosting? The same. I would ride 20m all the time because it makes your kite loops look better and lets you catch waves easier, except if I'm riding a thermal I use the 30s. That's basically it, the 20s arent high up enough to catch a strong thermal.


Thanks for the feedback. But when you say thermals are you referring primarily to afternoon sea breezes? Because if you are I just did some recent research on them and the general consensus is the sustained sea breeze extends up to 500 feet off the face of the water. So 20M or 30M lines are reaching the exact same wind speeds.


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 Post subject: Re: Shorter Line Length and Standard Line Length
PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2013 10:32 pm 
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Be clear on what you mean by "turning speed"

Had too many waste-of-time arguments with people at my beach who say for long lines: "it turns to slow". I say, no it doesn't, it just takes longer to get where its going. Kite turns (or pivots) in the same amount of time, long or short lines. There is a subtle and important difference there, and pointless arguing will result.

Bottom line - you'll have to sine the kite more on short lines for getting up on a plane
You can get the kite from left-to-right or right-to-left window a lot faster with short lines
Therefore, you can change travel direction faster on short lines (needed for wave riding)


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 Post subject: Re: Shorter Line Length and Standard Line Length
PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 7:40 pm 
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Here's how it works. . . . Every wind has a wind gradient. At the boundary (that is at 0 inches from the ground) wind is always exactly zero. Then as you go up, you start to get more wind, and at 1 feet it might 3 or 4 knots, then if you go up to 6 feet you might have it blow pretty good at 15 knots, and now you go kiting because you know at 20 meters up the wind is 16 or 17 knots.

With a thermal the wind gradient is steeper and is especially important at 20 meters where at 30 meters will be several knots stronger than the 20 meter lines.

Not all winds are the same, and some locations have different kinds of thermals.

As for talking about 500 feet up, I don't really know what the wind does up there in a thermal.

just try the 20 meter lines you'll figure it out.


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 Post subject: Re: Shorter Line Length and Standard Line Length
PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 10:13 pm 
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edt wrote:
Here's how it works. . . . Every wind has a wind gradient. At the boundary (that is at 0 inches from the ground) wind is always exactly zero. Then as you go up, you start to get more wind, and at 1 feet it might 3 or 4 knots, then if you go up to 6 feet you might have it blow pretty good at 15 knots, and now you go kiting because you know at 20 meters up the wind is 16 or 17 knots.

With a thermal the wind gradient is steeper and is especially important at 20 meters where at 30 meters will be several knots stronger than the 20 meter lines.

Not all winds are the same, and some locations have different kinds of thermals.

As for talking about 500 feet up, I don't really know what the wind does up there in a thermal.

just try the 20 meter lines you'll figure it out.


I understand wind formation and sea breezes. I'm saying that 10M in line difference is irrelevant. Remember that the 10M is actually reduced to 5M in height difference because the kite is at a 45 degree angle. So telling me I'm going to get better wind based on a 10M line difference is not true.

Do people actually think the purpose of line extensions is to reach higher winds? That's laughable.


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 Post subject: Re: Shorter Line Length and Standard Line Length
PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 10:23 pm 
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Ayahuasca wrote:
Do people actually think the purpose of line extensions is to reach higher winds? That's laughable.


Well, then I guess I have nothing more to say. and it's 7.071 meters not 5.


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 Post subject: Re: Shorter Line Length and Standard Line Length
PostPosted: Fri Jun 28, 2013 4:49 am 
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southflorida wrote:
Be clear on what you mean by "turning speed"

Had too many waste-of-time arguments with people at my beach who say for long lines: "it turns to slow". I say, no it doesn't, it just takes longer to get where its going. Kite turns (or pivots) in the same amount of time, long or short lines. There is a subtle and important difference there, and pointless arguing will result.


this is a great statement, i am glad you said it so i didnt have to. kite simply has less distance to travel around you, therefore can be moved from one side of wind window to the other in less time. the kite isnt any faster turning or flying. it can feel slightly more sensitive to steering input, however.

longer lines for bigger kites, shorter ones for smaller kites (or whatever you feel like running). simple.


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