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continuing to expose IKO as a fraud

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kiwimike
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Re: continuing to expose IKO as a fraud

Postby kiwimike » Sat Jul 06, 2013 8:11 am

they are getting desperate. I will send another group email to the remaining 45 IKO schools when I get some time. will keep going until I get a refund. so pissed off having given them my hard earned cash.

mark van haze wrote:I'm not surprised in the least. The IKO was a great idea back in the days but even in 2006 when I did my ITC it was clearly focused on money making that effectively resulted to not much more than selling a good instructors manual (in my case poorly photocopied sheets of unbound paper) with a bullshit exam for around 600 Euros! What the fuck do they base that amount on?

Once they came up with their ridiculous online points system and exams, they fully went to shit. I mean would you have a driving instructor teach you to drive cars if he did his exams online?

Them threatening with lawyers is truly the icing on the cake - bring it on. I regret every cent I spent on those bastards.

I hope the IKO disappears from the kitesurfing scene ASAP!

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tautologies
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Re: continuing to expose IKO as a fraud

Postby tautologies » Sat Jul 06, 2013 10:56 am

kiwimike wrote:they are getting desperate. I will send another group email to the remaining 45 IKO schools when I get some time. will keep going until I get a refund. so pissed off having given them my hard earned cash.


So is all you care about your cash? Or do you find the organization to be a detriment to kiteboarding in general?

I understand it can be frustrating, and sorry to be blunt about this, but if this is all about your cash and then nothing else I really think you should stop posting it on KF. Then it is between you and them. If you are actually think the organization is bad and want to warn people I think it is a different matter...

I remember when they did a course on Oahu in 0 wind. They said they did not need to have wind to teach people to be instructors. Considering their charge of I think it was somewhere between $700 and $900 I think it was pretty steep. Either way I never took it so I don't know.

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Re: continuing to expose IKO as a fraud

Postby eree » Sat Jul 06, 2013 6:36 pm

tautologies wrote:...So is all you care about your cash?...
I understand it can be frustrating, and sorry to be blunt about this, but if this is all about your cash and then nothing else I really think you should stop posting it on KF...

aren't you when you are "promoting" naish gear here?

iko cleverly counted on human greed when they started their business.
if for example in certain country there are 10 kiters who wish to start kiteboard instructor business, than two of them joined the iko just to have an edge in being more "official" even though iko has not any jurisdictional weight in most of the world. then the other 8 guys had to join the iko just to keep up in the competition and paying themselves sick.

so, what do you think, is the organization bad and he just wants to warn people?

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Re: continuing to expose IKO as a fraud

Postby RichardM » Sat Jul 06, 2013 9:39 pm

.
Although I’ve posted many derogatory posts concerning the IKO over many years, I haven’t checked out their programs for over a year so I can’t say that they haven’t improved or perhaps even corrected what I found most objectionable (although I doubt it).

However, kiwimike you should be glad you’re not in the US. I don’t know what the civil liability laws are in Thailand, but in the US, you’d be TOAST even if you could prove you’ve been defrauded. I won’t list the various causes of action that I think the IKO could establish, but they go far beyond mere defamation (which you could defeat if you could PROVE the truth of your accusations).

I believe that the true and most nefarious purpose underlying virtually all orgs is the desire to be positioned such that they can provide “certifications” and/or “insurance” on a CONTINUING basis for ALL kiters because local authorities will REQUIRE one or both items in order to kite.

Obviously, as a business model, succeeding in this regard puts one on the delicious gravy train of an ENDLESS, perpetually increasing, income stream.

It also means that an org with the above goal is motivated to CONVINCE authorities that kiting is DANGEROUS and that the authority needs the org to help regulate the dangerous activity. The most blatant example of this occurred a few years ago when an IKO minion put together a video of kiting accidents and showed it to Canadian authorities in a failed attempt to effectively control kiting in Canada.

Without studying the thread in detail, I suspect that kiwimike has started a new COMPETITIVE org, kitesafeassociation, and like the other OBJECTIONABLE orgs has attempted to get his foot in the door by offering “instructor’s licenses” in direct COMPETITION with the IKO.

Anyone with any degree of perception can start to understand why his attack concentrates excessively on his alleged being defrauded by the IKO rather than the real problem of orgs as described above.

The FACT is that it is IMPOSSIBLE to “certify” instructors, except POSSIBLY on a very local basis because conditions, including legal and socialogical conditions, vary too dramatically around the globe.

“Certifying” instructors is simply a first step towards “certifying” ALL KITERS.

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Re: continuing to expose IKO as a fraud

Postby trxdude » Sun Jul 07, 2013 2:38 am

Glad I read this post, was about to dump a wad of cash to fly the IKO flag someday.

I'm thinking kiteboarding could be considered a fitness modality, as part of a comprehensive fitness certification that would include CPR, water safety, First Aid, traction training, etc. which would allow me to use my existing policy provider for insurance purposes :D . It's not funny to think someone might be shown how to how to kite, without assessing their physical fitness levels. As "my" system would include proficiency in swimming at least a mile, advanced balance training, spine, shoulder, hip, knee, ankle, etc. strength and mobility exercises, not to mention all of the usually unmentioned #ables gear selection, understanding forecast models, riding in onshore wind, strapless riding, unhooking, etc... blah, blah, blah... we all have ideals #ideas, but people will always find a way to organize, sometimes those organizations are good, sometimes they are bad, sometimes they just are. Every industry battles with the evolution of it's business practices, this IKO stuff is just the growing pains associated with a relatively complex and somewhat dangerous sport that is in it's infancy. Unique to other water sports like surfing, windsurfing, SUP, etc, where the danger is really only a threat to the rider, the element of the kite and the potential danger to innocent bystanders should require local authorities to recognize the idea that both the instructors AND the riders (i.e. all riders and their equipment) be under some level of scrutiny. As to who will set those standards, only time can tell, it appears as though the IKO will still be a player for years to come. :argue:

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Re: continuing to expose IKO as a fraud

Postby tautologies » Sun Jul 07, 2013 5:14 am

eree wrote:so, what do you think, is the organization bad and he just wants to warn people?


Could be a bit of both I guess. I am not a fan of IKO at all. What they did over here was way below par IMO.

The most blatant example of this occurred a few years ago when an IKO minion put together a video of kiting accidents and showed it to Canadian authorities in a failed attempt to effectively control kiting in Canada


Is this true? I know some of the weather organizations (that a lot of us are paying for) tried to have NOAA's free weather report feed go offline because they wanted to charge more for the data...that stuff is beyond unreasonable since NOAA is funded by our tax dollars.

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Re: continuing to expose IKO as a fraud

Postby mark van haze » Sun Jul 07, 2013 7:30 am

It might be that you would be toast in the US but the IKO is not a US company.

Further more, it is a COMPANY not an organization - there is a reason why they had to stop using the IKO.org domain.

As a private company they are not in any direct competition with true organizations.

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Re: continuing to expose IKO as a fraud

Postby MikeYQM » Sun Jul 07, 2013 10:19 am

I know from years of experience as a ski & snowboard instructor here that certifications are done by national bodies (Canadian Ski Instructors Alliance & Canadian Association of Snowboard Instructors). Are a lot of schools training their own people now?

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Re: continuing to expose IKO as a fraud

Postby Toby » Sun Jul 07, 2013 10:22 am

There was a story like this on kiteforum about Canada and licenses.
I think yes, someone said kiteboarding is dangerous and licenses needed.
Pls search for it to find more info.

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Re: continuing to expose IKO as a fraud

Postby RichardM » Sun Jul 07, 2013 11:09 pm

........
The most blatant example of this occurred a few years ago when an IKO minion put together a video of kiting accidents and showed it to Canadian authorities in a failed attempt to effectively control kiting in Canada


Is this true? I know some of the weather organizations (that a lot of us are paying for) tried to have NOAA's free weather report feed go offline because they wanted to charge more for the data...that stuff is beyond unreasonable since NOAA is funded by our tax dollars.


here's one of the threads.

http://www.kiteforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2357582&p=598966&hilit=Canada+IKO#p598966


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