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 Post subject: Re: Seaking helicopter incident leaves kite surfer injured
PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 11:21 pm 
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Joined: Fri Nov 11, 2005 5:17 am
Posts: 277
Location: East Coast USA
same thing happened to me here is a exp:
yes it was fun at Cape Charles yesterday until the helicopter decided to make a left turn and flew directly over my kite pushing my kite straight down about 40-50' then as the helicopter passed it then sucked the kite back with so much force it Broke my bar and ripped my chicken loop off my harness and started to lift me off the ground since I caught the bar in 1 hand. Lucily I had my safety line hooked up as I had been hooked in suicide all day and the kite went to the leash and just missed people on the beach crashing on the blue tent. I had just came to shore and was going to land the kite I was standing about 10 feet from the water in the corner of the beach talking to another kiter. Most of the Day the helicopter was just going around the end of the jetty but this time he must of been in a rush and decided to cut right across the edge of the beach and directly over my head... I am very pissed about this since he broke a 300.00 Bar and I am sure my lines will need to be replaced 200.00 and I have not had the chance to inspect my kite carefully yet but I am sure the force that was put on this kite had to damage it in some way and at minimum shorten the life and performance of this kite. I went over and talked to the pilots wife and she told me that he had went over the beach for a photographer in the Heli........ This was such a lack of common sense for the pilot to have!!!!! Now I had his wife inform him of this and had her tell him not to fly over any more kiters But I ask you the Kite Community what should my actions be? I ask this because It can affect everyone of us as I have not called him yet and have not really looked at my kite carefully yet. My Kite almost smashed directly on a family... If my bar did not break I am sure it would have lofted me because the force involved with the incident... Please give me your thoughts I want to have as many opinions as possible before I take action!!!


The pilot apologized to me and paid for my broken parts.... SCARY Situation though!!


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 Post subject: Re: Seaking helicopter incident leaves kite surfer injured
PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2013 12:05 am 
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Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2012 2:52 am
Posts: 391
Location: Tennessee
As a helicopter instructor pilot, I am amazed at these stories. The bottom line is that any helicopter is responsible for their rotorwash. Any aircraft coming close enough to a kiter, parachute, hang glider, (or anything else flying for that matter) to affect the flying of that device is simply wrong. Pilots are supposed to be aware of the rotorwash footprint for their aircraft at a given airspeed and altitude.. Although helicopters are legally allowed to fly low, they are required to keep safe distance from people and structures.

Just like kiters, most helicopter pilots are very safe and are concerned about the safety of others, but there are always a few who make the rest look bad. If you are in the unique situation to actually know the pilot who caused damage to your equipment and he is offering to pay, take his money. I guarantee it is cheaper than the trouble he would be in if his boss found out he was buzzing the beach too close to people.

As for normal daily operations, if helicopters are getting too close, get the tail number of the aircraft if you can, and if military, contact the base operations of the nearest base or facility and give them as much of the details as possible. If civilian, you can contact your country's aviation authority. This is not acceptable and should not be happening.


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 Post subject: Re: Seaking helicopter incident leaves kite surfer injured
PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2013 2:56 am 
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Joined: Thu Sep 14, 2006 3:23 am
Posts: 292
Location: California
Yes, I have lost control of my kite from the rotor wash of our Coast Guard chopper.
Pilots are responsible for their rotor wash.
Kiters are the victim here, not a defendant.

Yes, helicopters can sneak up on you.
Helicopters travel at least 60 mph, or one mile per minute,
which allows them to close distance on you in only a moment.

Helicopters need to have an air speed of about 60 mph to fly.
At that speed the pilot flies with the lift of the wing, called the rotor.
I said fly, not hover. Flying brings control not available when hovering.

So Yes, you should get out of the way of search and rescue.
And No, its not your fault when an aircraft attacks you.
WW


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 Post subject: Re: Seaking helicopter incident leaves kite surfer injured
PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2013 5:02 am 
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Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2012 2:52 am
Posts: 391
Location: Tennessee
Just to clarify what is dangerous to a kiter, low and slow upwind of you is the worst case. Even the largest helicopter at 300 ft or more with airspeed above 60kts should pose no threat to a kite. Hovering produces the most rotorwash, and the rotorwash will move downwind, so a helicopter downwind of you poses much less danger than one upwind. A helicopter actively searching for something in the water is more likely not to notice you, so if you notice an aircraft in a slow search pattern at low altitude, it is prudent to do what it takes to put yourself in a safe situation.

Also, for you guys who may have helicopters photographing you, make sure the pilot knows to stay downwind of you, or offset enough not to affect your kite.

This is kind of a rare situation, but it can be a dangerous condition.


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 Post subject: Re: Seaking helicopter incident leaves kite surfer injured
PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2013 6:23 am 
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Joined: Thu Oct 06, 2011 8:36 am
Posts: 113
KYLakeKiter wrote:
As a helicopter instructor pilot, I am amazed at these stories. The bottom line is that any helicopter is responsible for their rotorwash. Any aircraft coming close enough to a kiter, parachute, hang glider, (or anything else flying for that matter) to affect the flying of that device is simply wrong. Pilots are supposed to be aware of the rotorwash footprint for their aircraft at a given airspeed and altitude.. Although helicopters are legally allowed to fly low, they are required to keep safe distance from people and structures.

Just like kiters, most helicopter pilots are very safe and are concerned about the safety of others, but there are always a few who make the rest look bad. If you are in the unique situation to actually know the pilot who caused damage to your equipment and he is offering to pay, take his money. I guarantee it is cheaper than the trouble he would be in if his boss found out he was buzzing the beach too close to people.

As for normal daily operations, if helicopters are getting too close, get the tail number of the aircraft if you can, and if military, contact the base operations of the nearest base or facility and give them as much of the details as possible. If civilian, you can contact your country's aviation authority. This is not acceptable and should not be happening.


If there is a formal route and the pilot keeps that route then he/she are not in fault.
It's like kiting right next to the zebra. the pilot will not be at blame.
Don't be a rat. nobody likes rats.


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 Post subject: Re: Seaking helicopter incident leaves kite surfer injured
PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2013 2:04 pm 
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Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2012 2:52 am
Posts: 391
Location: Tennessee
ben newman wrote:
KYLakeKiter wrote:
As a helicopter instructor pilot, I am amazed at these stories. The bottom line is that any helicopter is responsible for their rotorwash. Any aircraft coming close enough to a kiter, parachute, hang glider, (or anything else flying for that matter) to affect the flying of that device is simply wrong. Pilots are supposed to be aware of the rotorwash footprint for their aircraft at a given airspeed and altitude.. Although helicopters are legally allowed to fly low, they are required to keep safe distance from people and structures.

Just like kiters, most helicopter pilots are very safe and are concerned about the safety of others, but there are always a few who make the rest look bad. If you are in the unique situation to actually know the pilot who caused damage to your equipment and he is offering to pay, take his money. I guarantee it is cheaper than the trouble he would be in if his boss found out he was buzzing the beach too close to people.

As for normal daily operations, if helicopters are getting too close, get the tail number of the aircraft if you can, and if military, contact the base operations of the nearest base or facility and give them as much of the details as possible. If civilian, you can contact your country's aviation authority. This is not acceptable and should not be happening.


If there is a formal route and the pilot keeps that route then he/she are not in fault.
It's like kiting right next to the zebra. the pilot will not be at blame.
Don't be a rat. nobody likes rats.


Even while flying an established air corridor, you should be able to see and avoid people conducting a recreational activity that stays below 100ft AGL. While I would agree that there are some places a kite shouldn't be, like on the approach path to an airport, the helicopter has the most options to see and avoid.

If it is being a "rat" to dime out someone doing something that places unsuspecting people in danger, then so be it.


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 Post subject: Re: Seaking helicopter incident leaves kite surfer injured
PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2013 11:06 am 
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Joined: Sat Apr 19, 2008 10:00 pm
Posts: 429
ben newman wrote:
If there is a formal route and the pilot keeps that route then he/she are not in fault.
It's like kiting right next to the zebra. the pilot will not be at blame.
Don't be a rat. nobody likes rats.


SAR pattern was to seek a person lost in the sea. What is a point to do a zebra over hundreds people on the beach 200m off the waterline?


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 Post subject: Re: Seaking helicopter incident leaves kite surfer injured
PostPosted: Wed Jul 24, 2013 8:05 am 
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Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2011 8:55 am
Posts: 18
I understand dunking the kite if there's a chopper flying over.

What if it's a tank? Smile and wave?


Attachments:
kites-and-tanks.jpg
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 Post subject: Re: Seaking helicopter incident leaves kite surfer injured
PostPosted: Wed Jul 24, 2013 8:52 am 
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Joined: Thu Oct 06, 2011 8:03 am
Posts: 87
KYLakeKiter wrote:
ben newman wrote:
KYLakeKiter wrote:
As a helicopter instructor pilot, I am amazed at these stories. The bottom line is that any helicopter is responsible for their rotorwash. Any aircraft coming close enough to a kiter, parachute, hang glider, (or anything else flying for that matter) to affect the flying of that device is simply wrong. Pilots are supposed to be aware of the rotorwash footprint for their aircraft at a given airspeed and altitude.. Although helicopters are legally allowed to fly low, they are required to keep safe distance from people and structures.

Just like kiters, most helicopter pilots are very safe and are concerned about the safety of others, but there are always a few who make the rest look bad. If you are in the unique situation to actually know the pilot who caused damage to your equipment and he is offering to pay, take his money. I guarantee it is cheaper than the trouble he would be in if his boss found out he was buzzing the beach too close to people.

As for normal daily operations, if helicopters are getting too close, get the tail number of the aircraft if you can, and if military, contact the base operations of the nearest base or facility and give them as much of the details as possible. If civilian, you can contact your country's aviation authority. This is not acceptable and should not be happening.


If there is a formal route and the pilot keeps that route then he/she are not in fault.
It's like kiting right next to the zebra. the pilot will not be at blame.
Don't be a rat. nobody likes rats.


Even while flying an established air corridor, you should be able to see and avoid people conducting a recreational activity that stays below 100ft AGL. While I would agree that there are some places a kite shouldn't be, like on the approach path to an airport, the helicopter has the most options to see and avoid.

If it is being a "rat" to dime out someone doing something that places unsuspecting people in danger, then so be it.


100% right on. But still, you need to know all the facts before blaming the pilot.


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 Post subject: Re: Seaking helicopter incident leaves kite surfer injured
PostPosted: Wed Jul 24, 2013 9:35 am 
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Joined: Sun Dec 26, 2004 2:37 am
Posts: 148
Location: Labia
ivan-d wrote:
I understand dunking the kite if there's a chopper flying over.

What if it's a tank? Smile and wave?


yup pretty sure tanks have right of way, but since Tiananmen Square there maybe precedence in your favour.
If the tanks are in a search pattern then it might be best if you just stay clear and make no sudden movements other than raising your arms.


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