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Front line swivel mod w/ single front line safety,Working?

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bnthere
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Re: Front line swivel mod w/ single front line safety,Workin

Postby bnthere » Sun Sep 08, 2013 6:16 pm

almost all brands now use this type of leash line system.

recent conversions from double centerline systems include:

airush
best
cabrinha
epic

im sure there are others.


its been around for quite a while now, starting with SlingShot (CSS) i believe 5 or 6 years ago at least.

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Re: Front line swivel mod w/ single front line safety,Workin

Postby flybykite » Sun Sep 08, 2013 7:23 pm

bnthere wrote:almost all brands now use this type of leash line system.

recent conversions from double centerline systems include:

airush
best
cabrinha
epic

im sure there are others.


its been around for quite a while now, starting with SlingShot (CSS) i believe 5 or 6 years ago at least.

I'm aware of many bars flagging to one line safety. The point of this thread is to create a custom bar . Things I want.....
front line swivel
below the bar leash,
north micro loop and hook setup
above the bar depower
working single line flag

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Re: Front line swivel mod w/ single front line safety,Workin

Postby icebird » Sun Sep 08, 2013 9:51 pm

The 2013 blade bar has all of this except the micro hook - but you could splice an older North bar with a blade bar.

You didn't mention stopper - it doesn't have one.

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Re: Front line swivel mod w/ single front line safety,Workin

Postby Kamikuza » Mon Sep 09, 2013 12:55 am

I don't get the desire for single front-line flagging . . . the only kites I've got that do that, are my Flysurfers and I've broken front-lines or pigtails twice now - both on the side with the single-line flagging :(

Also means line mounts for the GoPro might cause trouble.

After using the OR Freeride bar for a while now, I'm wanting below the bar depower from now on too. So I'm thinking Naish Drafts might be my next set of free-ride/boosting kites . . .

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Re: Front line swivel mod w/ single front line safety,Workin

Postby bgkiter » Mon Sep 09, 2013 1:29 am

Kamikuza wrote:I don't get the desire for single front-line flagging . . . the only kites I've got that do that, are my Flysurfers and I've broken front-lines or pigtails twice now - both on the side with the single-line flagging :(

Also means line mounts for the GoPro might cause trouble.

After using the OR Freeride bar for a while now, I'm wanting below the bar depower from now on too. So I'm thinking Naish Drafts might be my next set of free-ride/boosting kites . . .


Single front line flagging is safer and the way forward, especially since bridles are getting shorter, simpler and without pulleys. Cabrinha and Best are now single front line flagging. Also gone are the long Y's that used to be on a number of kites. Now the choices are above/below the bar depower and manual vs mouse-ear type swivels. Not sure if you have ever flagged a Fat Lady on both front lines in 20mph+ wind and see how much it pulls :P

V

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Re: Front line swivel mod w/ single front line safety,Workin

Postby edt » Mon Sep 09, 2013 1:38 am

Kamikuza wrote:I don't get the desire for single front-line flagging


mini 5th bars required a working bridle to flag. So for instance if you have a wingtip wrap and QR on a mini 5th bar, it will continue to pull and you will have to release but a single center will properly flag out. mini 5th Y bars also require that the bridles be long. If the bridle is too short this means the kite can't tilt back far enough to completely depower. This is a serious design constraint. In addition to being dangerous long bridles have a soggy feeling to them. A single line flag bar can be used with all your kites but a mini 5th bar can only be used on the kites which have bridles designed to go to the safety on them. The Y on a mini 5th can also pinch the wingtips and each manufacturer seems to have the Y put in a different place. to me the single worst thing about the mini-5th line bars are the design constraints they introduce into the kites. When the manufacturers switch to a single center flag system it frees them to make shorter bridled more responsive kites.

the only reason to dislike single center systems are that the bar shoots all the way to the kite and makes spagetti. You can fix this by sewing a knotted piece of line 10 meters from the bar. Ozone uses a red stopper ball on the line but I like a piece of knotted line better, it's cheap and easy to mod your lines this way.

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Re: Front line swivel mod w/ single front line safety,Workin

Postby flybykite » Mon Sep 09, 2013 2:19 am

icebird wrote:The 2013 blade bar has all of this except the micro hook - but you could splice an older North bar with a blade bar.

You didn't mention stopper - it doesn't have one.

Blade bar looks great but I've got about 6 bars at the moment that I'd like to use parts from and save cash.
For sure I'll add a stopper. Thanks for the tip edt. I'll use that!
Where can I order a LF swivel? Their website has no "buy" button for this particular item.

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Re: Front line swivel mod w/ single front line safety,Workin

Postby Laughingman » Mon Sep 09, 2013 5:10 pm

Almost the same thread. I have some pics there of the bar I put together.


flybykite wrote:
bnthere wrote:almost all brands now use this type of leash line system.

recent conversions from double centerline systems include:

airush
best
cabrinha
epic

im sure there are others.


its been around for quite a while now, starting with SlingShot (CSS) i believe 5 or 6 years ago at least.

I'm aware of many bars flagging to one line safety. The point of this thread is to create a custom bar . Things I want.....
front line swivel
below the bar leash,
north micro loop and hook setup
above the bar depower
working single line flag

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edt
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Re: Front line swivel mod w/ single front line safety,Workin

Postby edt » Mon Sep 09, 2013 5:54 pm

i built my own bar, above bar depower, home made north style microloop, single line flagging unit drilled out from a block of nylon, cleated depower trim. No spinner because spinners will eventually twist one of your lines and make it curl -- you will notice your flag out line clinging to your other lines and it will seem mysterious -- that's your spinner it untwists your center lines but puts a twist in your flagout. You should be rotating both directions anyway.

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Re: Front line swivel mod w/ single front line safety,Workin

Postby Kamikuza » Tue Sep 10, 2013 1:01 am

bgkiter wrote:Single front line flagging is safer and the way forward, especially since bridles are getting shorter, simpler and without pulleys. Cabrinha and Best are now single front line flagging. Also gone are the long Y's that used to be on a number of kites. Now the choices are above/below the bar depower and manual vs mouse-ear type swivels. Not sure if you have ever flagged a Fat Lady on both front lines in 20mph+ wind and see how much it pulls :P

V

Not trying to be a dick, but what's the proof that single front it is safer?

Have to admit that I've rarely flagged out my Cabrinhas on the QR. Don't remember them pulling but they did roll over to landing position properly . . .

edt wrote:mini 5th bars required a working bridle to flag. So for instance if you have a wingtip wrap and QR on a mini 5th bar, it will continue to pull and you will have to release but a single center will properly flag out. mini 5th Y bars also require that the bridles be long. If the bridle is too short this means the kite can't tilt back far enough to completely depower. This is a serious design constraint. In addition to being dangerous long bridles have a soggy feeling to them. A single line flag bar can be used with all your kites but a mini 5th bar can only be used on the kites which have bridles designed to go to the safety on them. The Y on a mini 5th can also pinch the wingtips and each manufacturer seems to have the Y put in a different place. to me the single worst thing about the mini-5th line bars are the design constraints they introduce into the kites. When the manufacturers switch to a single center flag system it frees them to make shorter bridled more responsive kites.

the only reason to dislike single center systems are that the bar shoots all the way to the kite and makes spagetti. You can fix this by sewing a knotted piece of line 10 meters from the bar. Ozone uses a red stopper ball on the line but I like a piece of knotted line better, it's cheap and easy to mod your lines this way.

So mini-5ths are a fashion statement? Seems single lines are the same - driven by the "no bridles, more responsive" crowd :D

And the other problem is the requirement for the line to be stoppered at the V, but still be able to feed through the bar. Which means you can really run it through a QR and you lose the ability to untangle rotations . . . don't you? I'm guessing that's why Cab went for the mini-5th - no need to alter the ID of the QR body.


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