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 Post subject: Re: Upwind capability
PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2013 12:51 am 
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Joined: Fri Dec 12, 2008 2:46 am
Posts: 106
Location: San Diego
JV wrote:
Hi y'all
How would you compare to other kites the BRM Cloud upwind capability (for the same board of course)?
Let's say what Cloud size you are talking about.
Thanks


I have the 17M and 13M and they both go upwind great. I use a surfboard with them and I used the same surfboard with my previous kite and I could not go upwind as well as with the Clouds. The 13M is my favorite. I have taken it as low as 11 mph and up to 16 mph average, it probably can go more but I have not had the chance to try it in higher winds.

The 17M is great for low winds, as low as 9 mph but when it goes over 14 mph it get to be a lot to handle, if it is averaging 14 mph and up I switch to the 13M. I have taken the 17M in gust up to 20 mph but it is not fun. Keep in mind I always ride a 6' surfboard strapless and I weigh 182 bl.


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 Post subject: Re: Strutless kite in development on Maui
PostPosted: Sun Aug 11, 2013 9:41 pm 
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Posts: 46
boardriding maui wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yc1OwFsjkbk



This weekend one year ago I let the cat out of the bag by flying the Cloud in development at the final event of the kite race series in Hawaii. Some of the footage in the video post that opened this tread was shot that day.

It wasn’t my interest to announce the project however recognizing the subjective nature of the riding experience I felt it was important to use the races as a slightly more objective format to quantify how the kites were working at that stage.

43 pages of discussion later I could have never guessed how the last year would have unfolded. It has been a great start to the ride. Thanks to all that have given their support by getting on board with the gear or even by just keeping an open mind to new ideas.


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 Post subject: Re: Strutless kite in development on Maui
PostPosted: Sun Aug 11, 2013 10:24 pm 
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Joined: Fri Nov 03, 2006 9:49 pm
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Location: South Florida
and thank you for giving us the opportunity to have some fun with something new and different. Years from now we'll be on the beach on a no wind day, drinking a beer, and we'll be able to say, "... yeah, back in the day we flew the first production strutless kite, man was that
something!" and the newbies will say "... get out! You mean back then there weren't any strutless kites? How long ago was that?"


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 Post subject: Re: Strutless kite in development on Maui
PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2013 2:40 am 
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Location: Oahu
ozonelevel wrote:
and thank you for giving us the opportunity to have some fun with something new and different. Years from now we'll be on the beach on a no wind day, drinking a beer, and we'll be able to say, "... yeah, back in the day we flew the first production strutless kite, man was that
something!" and the newbies will say "... get out! You mean back then there weren't any strutless kites? How long ago was that?"



:thumb: :thumb: Right!!


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 Post subject: Re: Strutless kite in development on Maui
PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2013 8:01 pm 
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So much water time obsessing on R&D, haven't worn a shirt in two days.
Can you please help me with your comments to 2 questions? (Genuine replies via email are preferred.)

1. Assuming its not possible to have one kite that handles better than all others in a single size with windrange from 7 - 35 knots,
And assuming we define overpowered as riding with so much power that you're unable to sheet in and could ride a kite 5m smaller,
Do you prefer a kite without compromise to best possible performance within a realistic windrange,
Or do you prefer to sacrifice 8% performance for greater stability when grossly overpowered?
(A fairly random % but its the number that felt like the best description)
(Question is not related to struts, but to other indicators of stability)

2. Assuming the kite is fast and fun, what is the biggest size kite you'd realistically have in your quiver?
(14? 16? 18? 20? Bigger? Smaller?)


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 Post subject: Re: Strutless kite in development on Maui
PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2013 1:11 am 
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Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2012 3:17 pm
Posts: 42
I would prefer a kite that performs better in a smaller wind range to one that is mediocre in a large. That said if I could get down to a quiver of
1. Light wind
2. Let's play
3. Holy Cow! I just saw a house fly by!

That would be pretty sweet.

I don't know that I'd go much over 20m for size but that would depend on how the kite handled gusts and it's wind range.

My thinking...maybe flawed but here's my thought process:
A wide wind range is important and the ability to handle gusts is also important. My fear with a kite that can be depowered for higher wind numbers is that you still have a lot of canopy in the air. If you are well powered on a 9m in say 25mph wind with gusts that are 30mph those gusts are hitting and effecting 9m of canopy. If you can depower a 14 to ride in 25mph the extra 5mph of the gust will hit a lot more canopy in the air and put a lot more power into the harness.

I'd rather have a kite tuned to a smaller wind range that if hit with a big gust I'd have the chance of handling the power then be totally lit on a depowered bigger kite and having a the same gust come through and wreck my day. I may not have explained it very well but a 5mph increase on my 17 is a very different event than a 5mph increase on my 9.


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 Post subject: One light wind experience...Wow
PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2013 8:54 pm 
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I don't normally speak out (first post, ever)...but some things deserve a special comment:
I recently had the opportunity to ride the BRM Cloud 12 in about 12 knots. Any of my previous 12m or 16m kites would have fallen from the sky during the lulls, followed by failed relaunch attempts, imagined shark sightings, a swim and a hike. But, the Cloud is super lightweight. When the wind backed off I was able to park the kite overhead and power up again when the next puff came, regaining apparent wind and upwind cruising. Quite simply this design makes for a fun light wind session when any other kite would need to stay in the car. I understand your new bridles are even better than last year's. Outstanding website and videos!


Last edited by AlohaPhil on Mon Sep 09, 2013 8:07 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Strutless kite in development on Maui
PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2013 11:56 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jul 10, 2013 1:12 pm
Posts: 45
A kite without compromise to best possible performance within a realistic windrange gets my vote. A quiver of 4 kites is almost a must but could be compressed into 3.


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 Post subject: Re: Strutless kite in development on Maui
PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 2:34 am 
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Joined: Fri Nov 03, 2006 9:49 pm
Posts: 347
Location: South Florida
One kite that could handle 6 to 20 mph would be great. The 13 Cloud is almost it. For my weight of 150 lbs it starts to be a handful at 17 mph. I've ridden it up to 25 mph but at that point it's hang on while looking for a place to land.


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 Post subject: Re: Strutless kite in development on Maui
PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 5:30 pm 
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Joined: Sun Sep 20, 2009 8:03 am
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Location: Hong Kong
I have read every single page of this thread and would like to say it has been very interesting reading. Congrats to board riding Maui for developing what looks to be the next generation of kites that need less wind to float or be efficient in the sky.

My own experience is inflatables to ram airs back to inflatables but with less struts (3). The ram airs are slow but soft and nice to fly, very light in the air and on the water! Inflatables are faster and have less complicated bridles but need a little bit more wind to get them going... The compromise or ultimate kite design so far seems to be a marriage between the lightness of the ram airs without the twin skins and the speed of the inflatables from their rigid frame in all wind conditions = lift and stability!

In regards to kites more specific to wind ranges or sacrificing performance to extending wind range my thoughts would be that the most dialled in I have ever been is when I was forced to use a switch blade 3 12m in conditions from 15 to 35 knots that kite was my only kite and I was one with that kite as I used nothing else as I couldn't afford a smaller one at the time! The only downside was that the kite got badly blown out after 9 months so I would suggest that if greater wind range is what you are looking for then you need to deal with the kite getting a lot more work and therefore will need to be quite durable.

Keep up the good work board riding Maui I will be buying a kite soon once I sort out where I will be kiting next year as it seems I will be changing locations in 2014 and light winds will be part of that equation. Thanks to all the posts they have all been well worth reading and very important to help me understand the performance aspects of these kites.

Good winds and fun on the water!


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