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 Post subject: Re: North kite 2014 inflation valve
PostPosted: Sun Oct 13, 2013 1:31 pm 
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Fabs - a bit overly dramatic... Did you read Dan's post? You just stick the hose end of just about any standard pump, twist it in and pump.


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 Post subject: Re: North kite 2014 inflation valve
PostPosted: Sun Oct 13, 2013 1:34 pm 
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FabsPH wrote:
so, I get the new pump thingy or a new pump with a new kite order?
Why the hell do they need to re invent the wheel ? stupid shit.




well the new valve seems to accept all pumps except the old north pumps . . . so I would say that the new valve size was designed well but they did not realise that the old north pumps differed from other pumps


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 Post subject: Re: North kite 2014 inflation valve
PostPosted: Sun Oct 13, 2013 1:48 pm 
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Sorry, might have over reacted, but still, why would it be so hard to stick with standard stuff?
Can't understand why any kite company needs to have special anything, regarding pumps, valves, knots, line length, etc.

They make enough money, why make it difficult ?

Seems to be a waste of money to redesign an intake valve where you need a special thingy.
And if a normal pump might work, why even have a thing if you don't need it? Is that why kites cost so much?
like I said, re-inventing the wheel ..


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 Post subject: Re: North kite 2014 inflation valve
PostPosted: Sun Oct 13, 2013 2:09 pm 
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Location: Ontario, Canada
max wrote:
FabsPH wrote:
so, I get the new pump thingy or a new pump with a new kite order?
Why the hell do they need to re invent the wheel ? stupid shit.




well the new valve seems to accept all pumps except the old north pumps . . . so I would say that the new valve size was designed well but they did not realise that the old north pumps differed from other pumps


Did you actually try to pump it?
Well, it accepts all pumps but at the end of pumping it releases the air with the new North pumps that I just received.
I inflated 7m and 10m Rebels 2014 and this is not just hissing, rather not convenient or easy way to pump kite with one hand and pressing the hose connector with the second hand to finish it. Doing this with strong wind or on the beach with shells will be not fun at all. BTW, I received new North pumps with new kites. Correct adapter as mentioned in this tread will fix the issue in my case. I think the design is good but at least properly fitted adapter is required.


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 Post subject: Re: North kite 2014 inflation valve
PostPosted: Sun Oct 13, 2013 2:23 pm 
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when I picked up my Rebels I was given this adapter that Dan showed in the beginning of the picture and they told me "without the adapter, your pumps will not work"...

I am still not clear whether there are even different types of new valves (first batch / later batch).. how do I see which batch I have...

Since my arm is still in a cast I couldnt try it yet...


I honestly don't get why they are just not using a system like Cabrinha... no adapter needed, maximum flow, simple, easily exchanged if it breaks... do they have a patent on it?


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 Post subject: Re: North kite 2014 inflation valve
PostPosted: Sun Oct 13, 2013 2:24 pm 
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Ok, so it sounds like was being a bit stupid. But it was not that straight forward looking to detach all the adaptors and just use tge hose. If it was my kite a may have tried that. But as it was a shop loan i did not want to damage anything. I agree with making things that are not interchangerble, it does not help anyone. I think LF did something similar but they had an additional point for a normal pump.
Paul


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 Post subject: Re: North kite 2014 inflation valve
PostPosted: Sun Oct 13, 2013 5:19 pm 
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Location: Ontario, Canada
BigPaul wrote:
Ok, so it sounds like was being a bit stupid. But it was not that straight forward looking to detach all the adaptors and just use tge hose. If it was my kite a may have tried that. But as it was a shop loan i did not want to damage anything. I agree with making things that are not interchangerble, it does not help anyone. I think LF did something similar but they had an additional point for a normal pump.
Paul


OK, it looks like I am not alone with this issue. I am hoping that soon Northkites representatives (watching this forum closely - I hope ) will come with solution how to address this issue. If the adapter is required. well, great, please make it available. I am willing to pay for it. If Cabrinha or other brand pump is needed, well, please advice us. I am not looking for freebie, if I have to pay extra to make it working it is still OK with me. I booked my kiting trip already and I do not want to depend on the availability of other kite brands pumps at the beach to have a kite session or to have two people to pump a kite :). I sent an email to my dealer and I sent PM to Dan on this forum. I understand that my dealer may not be aware of this issue and that he may be caught by surprise by my inquiry ant that the time may be needed to figure it out what the issue is.
The kite shop that I bought my kites provides good service, so all is perfect and complete.
I just have a requirement for the adapters. Simple.


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 Post subject: Re: North kite 2014 inflation valve
PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 11:22 am 
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Dear me we are a crazy bunch of whining nannies. Now, take whatever pump you have. Disconnect the adaptor that is on it...you still with me?

Now use the end of the hose (that's the part at the opposite end of the end attached to the pump...oh boy I might be getting too complex again),

Put that into the new valve and turn...now pump until your kite is at your desired pressure, turn it back and pull the hose out.

I have pumped 33 dice kites up this way on an ozone pump and I have the special connector but I cannot be fagged putting it on!

That being said I do think the cabrinha and ozone system is far more simpler. Not sure why they designed something that needs turning like that...its not necessary really,

Is there any reason north went that way?


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 Post subject: Re: North kite 2014 inflation valve
PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 6:20 pm 
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Whoa. I'll try to address some specific questions but before I do please take extra time to read the following 3 sentences, which should address most of the (suprisingly emotional) complaints I've seen on this thread...

Every 2014 North kite will work with pretty much every pump out there, no adapter needed. The initial batch of 2014 Rebels will work with pretty much every pump out there without any adapter, but you will need the free adapter to improve the fit with the new North pump. Our new pump will work with every kite out there, with or without an adapter. And worse comes to worse, if you find yourself alone on a beach with one of the few first Rebels and an unadapted new North pump, it is possible to inflate it, it's just annoying to use, as you'll have to hold the hose into the valve (or pump through the dump valve).

Now for those who want the whole story, I'll answer Heinzbush's question:
Yes, the initial batch of Rebels have a slightly different valve than the later ones, but the difference is not visible to the naked eye and is not in the mechanics of the valve, but simply in the size or positioning of the tabs to lock in the hose. The valve was designed around the hose connection we've used in the past, which most other brands also use. Around the same time that we designed the valve, we changed the source where we get our pumps. The connector at the end of the hose looks identical to the old one and as far as we knew they were completely interchangeable. After the first batch of Rebels was produced (the valves were not ready by the time the Vegas was produced, so they got the old valves), we realized that the new pump connector allows a bit of air to leak out when inflating. We slightly tweaked the valve, and after the first couple hundred Rebels came out, all subsequent kites come with the new valve and should work with just about all pumps. That first batch of Rebels works with just about all pumps and we have an adapter that you can glue onto your new pump so that it will work perfectly with the new pump. Using the adapter will not affect the pump's ability to work with everyone else's kite.

Babel- I've seen a couple of the one-way valves hiss when closed... Remember that the one-way valve is just a simple flap and is meant as a convenience to keep the air in until you screw the cap closed. The large screw-on cap is airtight. Think of it like you would the old type of one-way valve... When you'd pull the pump nozzle out, the flap would hold the air in, but you'd always put the cap in before riding.

FabsPH- you may be getting a connector with your pump but it won't be necessary as they are really meant to make the initial batches of Rebel match the new pump. Your Dice inflation should be compatible with your old pump or our new pump straight out of the bag.
As far as why we reinvented the wheel, the truth is that the new inflation system is REALLY nice. It makes pumping very noticeably easier than with the older style pump. Many brands have moved to a similar system and there was pressure from schools, dealers, and consumers to do the same thing. We could have continued to use the old system forever, but if everyone went with that mentality we'd still be on 2-line kites, or worse, we'd still be using masts and booms.
We actually have been testing this valve system for years. We almost put an earlier model of the valve on our 2013 kites but we wanted to test it for a year so that we wouldn't have any confusion or problems when we finally brought the valve to the market. Everything would've worked perfectly if it wasn't for the fact that we switched pump sources at the same time.

Finally, a big caveat... I've been told by the designers that our valves work with all pumps out there, and I've found this to be generally true, but I've found that our old (2010 or so) green pump hisses when I go to pump up a Dice. All the other pumps I've tried with it (including our new one, and a SS, Naish, Cab, and LF pump) work perfectly. But the fact that there's at least one model of pump that doesn't match makes me suspicious. If you find a particular model of pump not matching well with one of our kites, please feel free to chime in here. I'm working with limited information, and its possible that North and/or I are misinformed. But please don't jump on here to bitch without having tried the valve... I've heard lots of positive reviews from people who actually have the kites, even some from people who had the initial batch of mismatched pump/valve who had to order the adapter separately and use someone else's pump in the meantime.

Feel free to PM me if you have any other specific questions about this or if you have one of the early Rebels and are looking for an adapter.

-Dan


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 Post subject: Re: North kite 2014 inflation valve
PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 10:16 pm 
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Thank you! This makes sense now:

2014 Early Rebel:
- works with any pump
- works with new North pump WITHOUT adapter

2014 Later Rebel:
- works with any pump
- works with new North pump WITH adapter

I just compared my new North pump with an old Best and a new Cabrinha pump... you are right, if I have the adapter on the North, the tip is identical... Without the adapter, the length of the tip is a bit smaller...

All good then - lets pump those beasts up :thumb:


P.S.:
not that it is relevant, but just out of curiousity... wouldn't it have been easier to just change the hoses/tips of the pump rather than making a small change to the valves of the later batches...


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