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 Post subject: Getting 2013 Gear: Bandit 6 vs RRD Obsession
PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 2:22 pm 
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Location: Rome (Italy)
Hi guys,
I'm really interested in 2 kites that I have no chance to try before buying: RRD Obsession 2013 9mt or Bandit 6 9mt/10mt. (I have found very good offer for them and they seem to match what I am looking for).
In particular, I'm interested in the cons of these kites because all the reviews are terrific and they seem to be perfect.
My big concerns are:

Regarding Bandit: Does the life line twist against depower rope during backloop,frontloop or kiteloop? I prefer the lifeline integrated in depower rope like most of the other brands are doing now and the Fone system remember me the Old 2011 Wainman bar, where the behaviour of the lifeline was a real nightmare and in order to untwist this, I had to land the kite.
Regarding RRD Obsession. My concern is stability and" availability of jumping performance".
Stability because my last RRD kite Hypertype 2007 9 mt was a disaster: it always went in front stall in case you depower this one in zenith position. I really didn't understand how a kite company could sell a kite in the market with this kind of problem. Now I know that a lot of time has been passed since 2007 and I have heard nice reviews about this but I'm curious to know some honest feedback because I'm a little bit suspicious regarding RRD products.
With " availability of jumping performance" I mean is it easy to jump high with this kite or it is required a lot of attention?; for istance with Hypertype you can jump really high but you had to keep the kite exactly above your head, I mean that the jump was less instinctive than with other model and it bothered me.

Looking forward to having your feedback.
Aloha.
Simone.


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 Post subject: Re: Getting 2013 Gear: Bandit 6 vs RRD Obsession
PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 3:19 pm 
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Joined: Sat May 22, 2010 3:20 am
Posts: 211
I have not flown the Bandits at all but had considered them at some point too.

I have flown my 2012 13.5 and 10.5 exclusively for the past year and a half and I will tell you this, they can still Hindenburg but there seems to be a reason for making it happen. I spend a lot of time on the surfboard attempting freestyle moves and lets just say I often miss the board or landing and sink under the water with my bar sheeted out and the kite overhead.

Other times I unhook on my twin tip, and upon crashing I might have the bar still in hand but I'm trying to keep my kite dry so I'm still flying it. I usually release the bar and grab the chicken loop as the kite head back towards zenith.

These are the only times the kite potentially drops on me. Sometimes it is drastic and other times it doesn't quite happen but it starts off looking that way. I think by the way the center bridles are connected to the middle of the LE, a lot of inadvertent, or extra pull on the center lines can really yank the LE out of the air flow causing the kite to drop. As my center lines have crept over time, it has been much less noticeable. They creep in about the first 10 hours and you need to adjust to the next knot on the center line swivel. After that I don't know how long it has taken to creep any further. My lines have just crept enough to where I could tune the bar but not for optimal riding. I will probably adjust in stronger winds though.

On the 2013 kites, the center line setup is different, I think there is no swivel or line adjustment where the Y is. However, I just got a 2013 bar and mine came with a swivel and O-shit handles. I didn't not yet look and see about the center line adjustment knots though. I suspect they are there if the swivel is. The 2013 kites have an added leader line adjustment on the kites themselves. The wing tips have 3 or 4 different knots you can rig up to in effect changing the bar pressure and probably adjusting the likelihood of the kite dropping out of the sky.

In my experience, it has only happened if the kite is at Zenith, and the bar is all the way out, and I suddenly added a whole lot of extra weight to the chicken loop. (correction, it might happen in a severe windshadow). For me it's not a big problem. It happens mostly in lighter winds and when I feel not input on my harness, I simply grab the appropriate floaty. The kite drifts downwind far enough during its fall to tension the lines again before it hits the water, so if you have your hand on the right float, you can steer the kite to keep it from hitting the water.

What I have been doing lately is when I fall off the surfboard and know I'm going to add all the elements to create this scenario, I simply steer the kite down to one side or the other right before I hit the water. It has worked like a charm! Some situations I haven't had this occur is when I get yarded, I walk upwind to retrieve my board often flying the kite at Zenith or near it. Often I walk into the wind with no hands on the bar just catching my breath or whatever. The kite has not dropped on me doing this. I sometimes even walk downwind in this fashion; kite at Zenith, bar out no hands, with the kite trimmed for full depower.

Long story short you can prevent the kite from dropping on you. I flew the 2013 9 meter the other day in about 21 knots average, gusting to 27 knots. At 64 kgs, I was boosting effortlessly. I could easily have been on a 7. I don't think it takes much boost with them. I think the kite boosts best (availablity of jumping) when you are at the high end of the wind range for you and that particular size kite, with good timing you can make it happen in the middle range. As far as keeping the kite overhead, isn't that going to give you maximum height anyways? My guess is that it will become instinctive over time.

Hope this helps. Are you in Hawaii Simon?

Paolo


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 Post subject: Re: Getting 2013 Gear: Bandit 6 vs RRD Obsession
PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 5:15 pm 
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Joined: Thu Oct 19, 2006 9:39 pm
Posts: 21
Location: Rome (Italy)
PVITfrumBYRAM wrote:
I have not flown the Bandits at all but had considered them at some point too.

I have flown my 2012 13.5 and 10.5 exclusively for the past year and a half and I will tell you this, they can still Hindenburg but there seems to be a reason for making it happen. I spend a lot of time on the surfboard attempting freestyle moves and lets just say I often miss the board or landing and sink under the water with my bar sheeted out and the kite overhead.

Other times I unhook on my twin tip, and upon crashing I might have the bar still in hand but I'm trying to keep my kite dry so I'm still flying it. I usually release the bar and grab the chicken loop as the kite head back towards zenith.

These are the only times the kite potentially drops on me. Sometimes it is drastic and other times it doesn't quite happen but it starts off looking that way. I think by the way the center bridles are connected to the middle of the LE, a lot of inadvertent, or extra pull on the center lines can really yank the LE out of the air flow causing the kite to drop. As my center lines have crept over time, it has been much less noticeable. They creep in about the first 10 hours and you need to adjust to the next knot on the center line swivel. After that I don't know how long it has taken to creep any further. My lines have just crept enough to where I could tune the bar but not for optimal riding. I will probably adjust in stronger winds though.

On the 2013 kites, the center line setup is different, I think there is no swivel or line adjustment where the Y is. However, I just got a 2013 bar and mine came with a swivel and O-shit handles. I didn't not yet look and see about the center line adjustment knots though. I suspect they are there if the swivel is. The 2013 kites have an added leader line adjustment on the kites themselves. The wing tips have 3 or 4 different knots you can rig up to in effect changing the bar pressure and probably adjusting the likelihood of the kite dropping out of the sky.

In my experience, it has only happened if the kite is at Zenith, and the bar is all the way out, and I suddenly added a whole lot of extra weight to the chicken loop. (correction, it might happen in a severe windshadow). For me it's not a big problem. It happens mostly in lighter winds and when I feel not input on my harness, I simply grab the appropriate floaty. The kite drifts downwind far enough during its fall to tension the lines again before it hits the water, so if you have your hand on the right float, you can steer the kite to keep it from hitting the water.

What I have been doing lately is when I fall off the surfboard and know I'm going to add all the elements to create this scenario, I simply steer the kite down to one side or the other right before I hit the water. It has worked like a charm! Some situations I haven't had this occur is when I get yarded, I walk upwind to retrieve my board often flying the kite at Zenith or near it. Often I walk into the wind with no hands on the bar just catching my breath or whatever. The kite has not dropped on me doing this. I sometimes even walk downwind in this fashion; kite at Zenith, bar out no hands, with the kite trimmed for full depower.

Long story short you can prevent the kite from dropping on you. I flew the 2013 9 meter the other day in about 21 knots average, gusting to 27 knots. At 64 kgs, I was boosting effortlessly. I could easily have been on a 7. I don't think it takes much boost with them. I think the kite boosts best (availablity of jumping) when you are at the high end of the wind range for you and that particular size kite, with good timing you can make it happen in the middle range. As far as keeping the kite overhead, isn't that going to give you maximum height anyways? My guess is that it will become instinctive over time.

Hope this helps. Are you in Hawaii Simon?

Paolo

Ciao Paolo,
with my mind yet but unfortunately with my body not.
Anyway thank you for your honest review so you mean that 2012 are not a superstable kite but you have fun with it.
Is there someone that have tried Bandit 6 and Obsession 2013?


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 Post subject: Re: Getting 2013 Gear: Bandit 6 vs RRD Obsession
PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 11:39 pm 
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Joined: Sat May 22, 2010 3:20 am
Posts: 211
Well I think I could make just about any kite drop given the way I come down from a strapless air attempt. I've done it to the the 2013 Zephyr and the 2013 Switchblade 7 a bunch. Maybe they aren't superstable either.


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 Post subject: Re: Getting 2013 Gear: Bandit 6 vs RRD Obsession
PostPosted: Thu Oct 17, 2013 10:27 am 
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Joined: Thu Oct 19, 2006 9:39 pm
Posts: 21
Location: Rome (Italy)
Someone have Bandit Six who likes to share his experience with monolith bar?


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 Post subject: Re: Getting 2013 Gear: Bandit 6 vs RRD Obsession
PostPosted: Thu Oct 17, 2013 4:00 pm 
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Joined: Mon Nov 14, 2011 4:48 am
Posts: 148
I do.
I realy like the bar. it is clean and simple and the grip is good.
Some people don't like the QR but i have flown Bandits for several years now and it never opened unintentionally and when i did need to QR it worked every time.


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 Post subject: Re: Getting 2013 Gear: Bandit 6 vs RRD Obsession
PostPosted: Thu Oct 17, 2013 4:18 pm 
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Joined: Thu Oct 19, 2006 9:39 pm
Posts: 21
Location: Rome (Italy)
Jdude wrote:
I do.
I realy like the bar. it is clean and simple and the grip is good.
Some people don't like the QR but i have flown Bandits for several years now and it never opened unintentionally and when i did need to QR it worked every time.


Thank you Jdude,and what about the twisting of the life line on the depower rope when you do back/front/kite loop?


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