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Self Launch Anchor Technique Problem

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Kamikuza
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Re: Self Launch Anchor Technique Problem

Postby Kamikuza » Fri Oct 18, 2013 2:57 am

All depends on the wind - more consistent, no bobbling. More turbulent - bouncing on the tip. Put it a few feet back into the window and let the kite try and turn into the ground... holds itself fast.

The anchor at "our" beach is just a sandbag with a rope tied to it, buried a foot or so down.

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Re: Self Launch Anchor Technique Problem

Postby BWD » Fri Oct 18, 2013 3:59 am

Anyone who thinks their technique can't go wrong, such and such a kite can't launch accidentally, etc., needs realize they are wrong.
One thing to remember, is that self launch techniques are very often needed in places that are not ideal for kiting in the first place.
If the beach was ideal, with good wind, maybe there would be other kiters there to help more often :yes:
I've seen a lot of weird things happen with kites, and I don't even ride that often, living 100km+ from spots...

I have had to do lots of sanded, sandbag, tether, drift, hot, warm and cold launches, often off water that is not flat enough, beaches that aren't wide enough, etc.
I've seen parked kites on the beach turn around and launch themselves when the wind suddenly veers 30 degrees or so -fortunately with no one attached.

:!: I've had drift launches of C's, SLE's, and bows turn into hot launches due to wind gusts, currents, or chop rotating the kite and getting wind under it. :!:

Once I reverse relaunched a 15m fuel from 2005, in about 10 knots.
That's not supposed to happen. Too bad I could never duplicate it.

Anyway, don't get too cocky.

By the way, just about any kite can hot launch from an on-its-ear position.
All it takes is a little wind oscillation (or bad terrain, careless positioning, etc.), the kite can backwind, start to fall onto its nose, and be caught by the wind again before it is nose down on the sand.
Next thing you know it's shooting up.
Rare, often associated with user error, but it does happen. :!:

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Re: Self Launch Anchor Technique Problem

Postby L0KI » Fri Oct 18, 2013 7:48 am

Seems most of the kites these last years tether launch pretty well....but slow, deliberate, careful and well thought out is never a bad idea, obviously.
Back in 2008, I tethered a Slingshot Machine 17.5M (five lines C kite) to a cedar post one day, set the kite out in the ready position...the kite went up as I walked toward the bar...it ripped the 4X4 cedar post, and the ball of concrete that it was set in, out of the ground and they just sailed right by my head. :o ooops!
If that ball of concrete hit me, I would have died for sure.
I didn't tether launch for two years after that day.

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Re: Self Launch Anchor Technique Problem

Postby Don Monnot » Fri Oct 18, 2013 11:57 am

I totally agree with the "don't be too confident" approach. If you've only kited on the ocean and not an inland lake with a tree-lined shore, you have NO IDEA how shifty/gusty wind can be. ANY kite will hot launch with a tethered launch--it just takes the right combination of wind shifts, lulls, and gusts. The best advice I've read here is to make sure you keep a hand on one of the front lines during a tether launch so you can quickly depower/flag/control the kite while you're getting back to your bar. I have also had an anchor come flying toward me, but that was because I was stupidly walking on the downwind side of the lines (duh!). That was inexperience on my part. When looking back at some of the dumb things I've done kiting, I wonder how I managed to survive 6 years of kiting!

Don

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Re: Self Launch Anchor Technique Problem

Postby Peter_Frank » Fri Oct 18, 2013 12:09 pm

SupaEZ wrote:
Peter_Frank wrote:

Something is rotten in the state of Denmark
8) Peter


I like that expression
We have one similar here in USA........i smell a rat :wink:

Check this out:

You get to your bar at the anchor and put the CL in your harness hook...
....while kite sits pretty on wingtip

Next without touching the bar and keeping the trim line fully depowered like it was....
..... i walk upwind 10..20..30 degrees...keeping front line tension by stepping also back very little

Guess what happens as the inside of kite fills in with wind....it lifts off the ground....
...without any bar input

Snip...


I dont understand this as I wrote (and it is really important in terms of this topic about "selflaunching", and what can go wrong).

This morning when out before work, with a medium sized SLE kite, I tried to do this to the "extremes" (up to full 90 degree) to see if possible (AFTER the session - noone wants to waste even a minute of time before an early morning session).

Setting the kite down on its side.
Letting the bar out so the kite sits "pretty" on the wingtip, just in the CL.

Now I walk upwind - filling the canopy with wind - to see if it can take off.
Try to put more pressure by walking backward, and try to luff the kite by walking forward too.
No way it was possible (with my kites) - on the contrary - the kite gets more and more "squeeezed" to the ground and sits really stable f.ex at 30 degree downwind.

At some point, at 45-60 degree, it will end up LE down, and maybe slide towards 90 degree depending on surface.

I tried powering the kite up with the stopper, and down - but still the same result - it was not possible to get the kite to lift off :-?

So really puzzled what it is you experience here - a kite that would take off when deep in the window ?

Or was it merely theory only, that it should lift off the ground ?

(I've been wrong also, on another topic I was pretty sure about, in "thoughts" - but when doing it real life, I was wrong... Lesson learned :wink: )

8) Peter

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Re: Self Launch Anchor Technique Problem

Postby SupaEZ » Fri Oct 18, 2013 10:44 pm

Well let's check the score so far...Peter

Their kites took off on their own while anchored...Donohue90....Oldn......1.....2

His kite took off as he removed CL from anchor...14Toeside....3

Noel......saw it happen a few times to others.....4

Edt...says C kites will pop up even in light breeze when anchored....5

BWD...says it does happen ...so beware....6

Don Monot...says ANY kite will self hot launch anchored....
...................... with right combination of wind shift..lull..gust.....7

IMO... it is a overwhelming TRUE fact ....7 say yes....................you say no.......score 7 to 1

Oh well better luck next time...have fun and anchor safely :cheers:

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Re: Self Launch Anchor Technique Problem

Postby 14ToeSide » Fri Oct 18, 2013 11:08 pm

It's 2 Dark to see!!!!!

:housewife: :housewife: :housewife: :housewife: :happybirthday: :happybirthday: :happybirthday: :happybirthday: :pump: :pump: :pump: :pump:

SupaEZ
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Re: Self Launch Anchor Technique Problem

Postby SupaEZ » Sat Oct 19, 2013 1:12 am

14ToeSide wrote:It's 2 Dark to see!!!!!

:housewife: :housewife: :housewife: :housewife: :happybirthday: :happybirthday: :happybirthday: :happybirthday: :pump: :pump: :pump: :pump:



7:58 am sunrise and 5:59 pm sunset for Peter i believe
Hey 14Toeside i think those dishes are clean by now :wink: Yes Happy B-Day & keep on pumping

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Re: Self Launch Anchor Technique Problem

Postby Don Monnot » Sat Oct 19, 2013 6:13 pm

Peter, what I've experienced with self-hot launches has been as follows:

Park the kite on a wingtip and start walking toward the bar. Gusty shift in the wind (typically a very sharp, sudden, turbulent gust) rolls the kite toward downwind direction. It quits tumbling while resting on its trailing edge, straight downwind of the bar/anchor, or nearly so. The next gust hits while its leading edge up, and away it goes (with the lines twisted a few times. If the anchor point is solid enough, it won't pull out of the ground, but because of the kite's momentum, it may Hindenburg. It can get pretty exciting, in a not-so-fun way! And all this can happen before you get to the bar to try to control it, unless you run like hell for your bar after you let go of the kite.

Don

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Re: Self Launch Anchor Technique Problem

Postby magnetjim » Sat Oct 19, 2013 11:14 pm

SupaEZ wrote:20lbs of the bag is on the beach...10lbs is on top of LE.....nothing goes inside the kite
Because of that set-up the bag releases just right when the moment arrives to launch
Kite is on it's back with trailing edge totally parallel to the wind flow
Similar to the way you would launch a foil / ram air in the wind window....parallel to wind flow
I just position myself at a 45 degrees angle upwind of trailing edge and launch away
The LE near wingtip just slides right off from under the 10 lbs weight of the sandbag as kite rises



SupaEZ...do you have a video of your launch technique you could post?
would help me alot :)
Don't quite understand your setup. Kite on its back with the LE downwind and TE upwind puts the TE totally perpendiclur to the wind flow. If you are upwind 45deg to the right I guess the sandbag would then go on the left LE opposite side of your 45deg angle position.
So this is just a hot launch but with a 45 deg up wind position? Walk back 45 degs till tension in left LE line. Pull on the slack right LE line and the kite stands up CCW to the left and travels to the left upwind 9 o'clock position. Is that correct? Do you need to put sand on the TE to keep it down and from flapping?


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