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 Post subject: Re: Kiter dies in NYC - Plumb Beach
PostPosted: Thu Oct 17, 2013 11:57 pm 
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sad to hear, RIP NYC kiter!

The sport has its risk...but much safer than other sports.
The problem is the bad education about the risks when getting lessons.
Time is too short, people to cheap to pay a price to not only get onto the board, but also learn the most important basics for safety and weather.

Fatalities will continue to happen. We can only advice and post such info and help other people with our knowledge on forums like this. For the rest the kiter himself is responsible. Like driving a car...


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 Post subject: Re: Kiter dies in NYC - Plumb Beach
PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2013 12:52 am 
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Toby wrote:
sad to hear, RIP NYC kiter!

The sport has its risk...but much safer than other sports.
The problem is the bad education about the risks when getting lessons.
Time is too short, people to cheap to pay a price to not only get onto the board, but also learn the most important basics for safety and weather.

Fatalities will continue to happen. We can only advice and post such info and help other people with our knowledge on forums like this. For the rest the kiter himself is responsible. Like driving a car...

We drive cars in all sorts of weather conditions,brakes always work,unlike the safety systems on some of these kites,QR that fail death loops etc,it would be interesting if we could get stats on how many deaths and what kites they were using,reckon it make for some interesting facts,and would make kiting a safer sport,we live in a world where you can buy a water proof watch for a couple dollars and these guys cant make a qr that will not jam with sand and grit costing $600 , RIP NYC ,TONY


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 Post subject: Re: Kiter dies in NYC - Plumb Beach
PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2013 1:10 am 
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The education is bad nowadays no doubt, people forget the basics from the early days - relying on the mechanics of modern kite design that will bite you in the ass way worse when it fails. (kites too big for wind due to improved depower, deathloops, depower failure)

"it's as safe as any other sport if u get good lessons" ?

" it has risk but is safer than other sports". ?

I agree with Toby not IKA. It's for sure safer than base jumping lol lol

Industry should be looking at encouraging correct size kites for conditions - not how much depower it has.

Kite companies should be investigating the various causes of death loops in modern kite design and prevention measures, not dismiss them.

A body supposedly representing kitesurfing should not be using spin/ lies or bending the truth in order to try and get kiteboarding into the olympics at the risk of those getting into kiting without good knowledge of what they are getting themselves into.

Kite instruction needs to focus more on core values learnt from the early days of kiting - a generation is forgetting this.

I have no problem with naming kite brand year size, people are not naive enough to judge on that alone. i have seen this information more often recently - probably due to facebook / more access to forums.


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 Post subject: Re: Kiter dies in NYC - Plumb Beach
PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2013 4:49 pm 
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longwhitecloud wrote:
6 deaths in 2013 at least so far (i am pretty sure i have heard of others in non english speaking countries), most on land or ended up on land. I can also think of a handful in 2013 that ended up critically injured in intensive care and survived -(couple in uk from memory).

Hard to conclude accidents are only due to bad decisions, ability and weather conditions too; but there is no doubt about one thing - we can learn from these...

Very sorry to hear abut the NYC kiter.

Also agree that this has been a rough year with kite related deaths. It was starting to seem that improved safety systems, training and good judgement had overcome the death toll from prior years.

I am sure all of us have been in situations where we thought, "wow, I was lucky, that could have ended badly," which makes it more scary. If that happens to just about everybody, than it is a bit of a numbers game. You certainly plan accordingly to minimize your risks but there are times that the wind does things you did not anticipate or, for whatever reason, your kite goes down in a bad place. You have to get it up in the air safely and keep clear of lines either way.

That's what scares me about parents teaching young kids to kite. I know they take all precautions, but does a child have the knowledge or the sense to clear lines from the bar or the experience to tread water while keeping lines from wrapping around legs or body? You can die in this sport, without being reckless, right in front of people who won't be able to get to you fast enough to help. I *know* there are risks in *every* sport, so spare us the climb on that soapbox, please. It's a kite forum...we're talking about kite risks.


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 Post subject: Re: Kiter dies in NYC - Plumb Beach
PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2013 7:31 pm 
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hey, well?

R.I.P. dude, and condolence to his loved ones..

Nothing new here, our dead could indeed be stacked like cord wood---There's a post up there that also describes the "tingling" of the stoke which of course is another near irresistible, mind numbing invitation to become part and parcel of the pile...

What do most have in common? they happen on land---so why not introduce the innocent to the pitfalls associated with, say? a runaway kite in a less hostile medium---like i don't know deep water maybe?

That's the question, and I've yet to hear a satisfactory answer

Kites cost, and so do lessons, so why not install some friggin value?

Beach lessons are just insane...and I'd suggest you just leave the kids alone, let them grow and develop a sense of personal mortality before inflicting them with the mind numbing tingle on top of the piss and vinegar of invincible youth??

fuckin A
is all I really have to say
fokiten


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 Post subject: Re: Kiter dies in NYC - Plumb Beach
PostPosted: Sat Oct 19, 2013 6:03 pm 
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Gotta gree with Fo on this one. I learned in a shallow lagoon in Mexico and a couple times saved me from a beating. The problem is the sport has grown so much that just about anyone thinks they are instructors and will do just about anything to get a lesson or a course sold. So instead of waiting for right conditions or at right spot they just do whatever for the money. I do not think any newbies realize how dangerous the sport is without proper instruction and how quickly things happen, in less than a split second your life has changed. I see it all the time on the beach in Brasil where I live, wind is strong and in a split second someone is hurt, sometimes even shocks me what I see and I have been kiting 8 years. Ride strong be smart and take those lessons in a safe place. Nice weekend to all and of course my condolences to this persons family. Just remember kiters when you see someone new doing something wrong or dangerous take a minute to help or advise. If they do not want to listen that is fine at least you tried! :bye:


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 Post subject: Re: Kiter dies in NYC - Plumb Beach
PostPosted: Sat Oct 19, 2013 11:33 pm 
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Thoughts & prayers to the rider, friends and family.

Sadly, even with the advances in equipment, it is still an inherently risky sport - but that is somewhat to be expected in what is still an extreme sport. But equipment has progressed to such a degree that basic skills are no longer so essential.

I dont agree with the comments on age, as we cannot link this with the latest tragic fatality and anyone trying to stop me in my earlier days from near suicidal acts, would have been met with a heap of arrogance/stupidity.

The issue on beach lessons is valid, as riders should be taught that water is generally safer than the beach, so as to shake them from any false sense of security.

On a personal note, having witnessed a fataility first hand, I have promised that I will be very assertive, when I see a someone putting themsleves in a situation.

We are our Brother's keeper and must act accordingly.


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 Post subject: Re: Kiter dies in NYC - Plumb Beach
PostPosted: Sun Oct 20, 2013 12:03 am 
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I suppose I should make my "leave the kids alone" comment a bit clearer..

First off, much respect for grieving loved ones

What I'd like to say is that our sport should not be pimped, hyped or in other ways portrayed as just a fun way to pass some time at the beach...

folks eager to try it should be made aware of the "you either see it coming or you take the hit" nature of it, and don't forget the wind is invisible and comes from behind you---odds are sooner or later you're going to get whacked..hard to doubt that? Yeah? ..who doubts that?

Sure, it's way way easier than windsurfing, less tedious than SUP, and cooler looking than anything else you might see on the water...

Thing is you also "can" get dead way easier than any of the above stuff mentioned..

It's an insidiously deceptive thing to watch, It's natural to look and say I could do that, whoa that's so cool---and it is...

Ethics dictate a full discloser, when it comes to kids---that means being completely honest with their Moms..

Any questions?

Like I say, might as well just leave the kids alone
fokiten


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 Post subject: Re: Kiter dies in NYC - Plumb Beach
PostPosted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 3:10 pm 
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I can't think of many sports that are more dangerous than kiting in terms of potential for serious injury or death. The "more dangerous sports" that come to mind are base jumping and cave diving. Never did the former--used to do the latter.

What makes it safer is training and being aware of the hazards, and avoiding the hazardous situations.

In kiting, you need to be very cautious in certain situations, and can be totally free in others. Ya gotta know when to be cautious, and when to let her rip! Nothing like training to get you to the point that you know one from the other, and nothing like "getting lucky" a few times to reinforce the training. I think most of us who kite in iffy conditions do things with a bit more caution that those who have only kited in "safe" conditions. I think this forum is essential reading for beginners (and "experts") to help us learn from the mistakes of others.

Stay safe, my friends.

Don


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 Post subject: Re: Kiter dies in NYC - Plumb Beach
PostPosted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 3:39 pm 
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Fo Makes an excellent point when he said "and don't forget the wind is invisible and comes from behind you"

I was out yesterday, it was already raining but the sky was not the usual moody looking sky you get with large squalls. Out on the water for about 20mins with nothing unusual apart from the sting of the rain in my face. all going well.

I did a little hop to switch and notice a big pull in the kite as I'd caught a big gust. instinct told me to head in, although everything looked the same. I made it to the beach just has the rain went sideways and started pounding the beach the wind must have clocked 40knots when it truly came through only a moment or so after a mate had grab the kite. I had to lie down on top of it to keep it down.

This was at my local spot where I surf a lot. anyone can get caught out by something we cannont see and comes from behind you.

Paul

My condolences to the family and friends of our lost brother.


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