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 Post subject: New Wainman Smoke losing air
PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 12:46 am 
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So my new Smoke is losing air.....Pretty weird is when it first happened I thought maybe I didn't shut a valve all the way. I pumped it up and let it sit in the yard for about 4 hours and it was still hard and firm. OK, great it was me. Took it out the next day for a ride and was in the water maybe 30 min, came in landed and the leading edge was mushy again. Checked the valves and all seated fine.

What could be causing this? I've talked to a few people that said this happened to them as well when only flying the kite (weird)

It was pretty cold 45 deg when flying. Any help or advice would be great.


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 Post subject: Re: New Wainman Smoke losing air
PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 12:57 am 
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Joined: Tue May 25, 2010 8:32 pm
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This happened to me with my Big Mama after a few years of usage, it would hold air on the beach but as soon as I flew it, the leading edge would start to loose air.

It can happen to any kite, it is not a Wainman thing.

For me, I had got a few micro holes in my bladder from sand getting inside, or from sand getting between the leading edge and bladder. When it was on he beach, it would be pressed up against the leading edge and would hold air but as soon as it was in the air, the twisting and torquing of the kite would cause it to lose air quickly.

I ended up needing to take the LE edge out twice to find all of the little holes I had from sand.

I guess, you should also check the valve connection to the kite to ensure the seal is perfect.

Good luck


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 Post subject: Re: New Wainman Smoke losing air
PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 1:04 am 
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Joined: Fri Jul 16, 2010 6:27 am
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Location: Ford Lake, Michigan
had that happen to a number of kites, sometimes it is the valve which can occasionally hold air but when the kite bends for instance on a tomahawk it can start leaking, or it can be a pinhole which will sometimes close sometimes open, it can be a seam. Pump it up hard on a no wind day, dunk it under water. You need to pump it really hard to make sure it will leak. Once you find the leak, get a marker and if it is in place hard to remember, mark on the kite where the leak is because it can be really hard to find a leak like this once you take out the bladder. I've seen a bad valve before on a brand new kite before from a poor glue job, so don't think it can't be the valve just because the kite is new. Don't take out the leading edge before you find the hole. If it is a pinhole it will be a bitch to find, and you want to locate it while the kite is pumped up hard enough so it leaks a decent amount of air. Once the bladder is out you can't pump it very hard otherwise of course the bladder will explode. The cold shouldn't matter, I fly my inflatables when it's 10 below zero.


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 Post subject: Re: New Wainman Smoke losing air
PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 1:33 am 
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Remember, air shrinks when temperature drops and becomes denser. So a kite inflated on warmer environment, when touches cold water potentially could lose volume inside the bladder. Unlikely it has pin holes if it is a new kite, and especially given that you tested it on land and it was fine. Just my 0.2.


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 Post subject: Re: New Wainman Smoke losing air
PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 1:39 am 
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rocktor wrote:
Remember, air shrinks when temperature drops and becomes denser. So a kite inflated on warmer environment, when touches cold water potentially could lose volume inside the bladder. Unlikely it has pin holes if it is a new kite, and especially given that you tested it on land and it was fine. Just my 0.2.



I thought I was in this camp but the other kite I had inflated was just fine in and out of the water. The place I bought the Wainman is good to me so I'm not too worried, I just want to know why it's doing it.


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 Post subject: Re: New Wainman Smoke losing air
PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 1:50 am 
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Its one of the valves where they are glued to the bladders.
The glue has let go.
Either replace the valves or reglue them.


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 Post subject: Re: New Wainman Smoke losing air
PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 2:04 am 
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Location: Ford Lake, Michigan
it can definitely be pinholes or bad valves I seen both of these things happen on brand new out of the box kites. pump it hard and dunk it. The time I had a brand new kite with a bad valve it was just a sloppy job at the factory The time I had a brand new kite with two pinholes, I searched the kite from end to end, could not find why it happened, patched it and it was good from them on. If you don't want to do the patch get the guy at the shop to do it for you. I hate losing time I could be riding because my kite is at the shop getting repaired I would just do it myself.


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 Post subject: Re: New Wainman Smoke losing air
PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 9:49 am 
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Joined: Wed Oct 21, 2009 5:32 am
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Your kite is new so this might not be the problem, but leaking dump valves are definitely a Wainman thing. It happened on three of mine and two of my buds.

The dump valve is sonic welded to the inside of the bladder, not the outside like on most kites. A valve delam isn't readily apparent as the pressure pushes the valve against the bladder sealing the leak. What you typically get is a slow leak which makes you think of pin holes and such. If you slam your kite into the ground or water you'll get a brief fast leak until it reseals. The next time you pump it up, it'll hold air, then leak slowly again. Drove me crazy until I figured it out.

Damn things are hard to fix too. You can't just aquaseal them cause it's near impossible to work inside the bladder. Also the valve has a white reinforcing surround that aquaseal will not adhere to. On the last two repairs I cut some bladder material into a 5" disk, glued a standard non-Wainman dump valve to the center of the disk, cut a hole, then glued the entire disk to the outside of the bladder over and outside that white band. Worked like a champ.


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 Post subject: Re: New Wainman Smoke losing air
PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 11:10 am 
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Joined: Mon Aug 16, 2010 4:11 am
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Kupono wrote:
Your kite is new so this might not be the problem, but leaking dump valves are definitely a Wainman thing. It happened on three of mine and two of my buds.

The dump valve is sonic welded to the inside of the bladder, not the outside like on most kites. A valve delam isn't readily apparent as the pressure pushes the valve against the bladder sealing the leak. What you typically get is a slow leak which makes you think of pin holes and such. If you slam your kite into the ground or water you'll get a brief fast leak until it reseals. The next time you pump it up, it'll hold air, then leak slowly again. Drove me crazy until I figured it out.

Damn things are hard to fix too. You can't just aquaseal them cause it's near impossible to work inside the bladder. Also the valve has a white reinforcing surround that aquaseal will not adhere to. On the last two repairs I cut some bladder material into a 5" disk, glued a standard non-Wainman dump valve to the center of the disk, cut a hole, then glued the entire disk to the outside of the bladder over and outside that white band. Worked like a champ.


I had a similar problem with my Wainman kites as Kupono had with his Wainman kite and I fixed the problem with a similar way as he did to his kite. This problem had already happen to two of my 4 Wainman kites.

Jan


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 Post subject: Re: New Wainman Smoke losing air
PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 12:52 pm 
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Joined: Wed Nov 06, 2013 12:05 am
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Kupono wrote:
Your kite is new so this might not be the problem, but leaking dump valves are definitely a Wainman thing. It happened on three of mine and two of my buds.

The dump valve is sonic welded to the inside of the bladder, not the outside like on most kites. A valve delam isn't readily apparent as the pressure pushes the valve against the bladder sealing the leak. What you typically get is a slow leak which makes you think of pin holes and such. If you slam your kite into the ground or water you'll get a brief fast leak until it reseals. The next time you pump it up, it'll hold air, then leak slowly again. Drove me crazy until I figured it out.

Damn things are hard to fix too. You can't just aquaseal them cause it's near impossible to work inside the bladder. Also the valve has a white reinforcing surround that aquaseal will not adhere to. On the last two repairs I cut some bladder material into a 5" disk, glued a standard non-Wainman dump valve to the center of the disk, cut a hole, then glued the entire disk to the outside of the bladder over and outside that white band. Worked like a champ.


OK now we are getting somewhere! Thanks for the info guys.


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