*


All times are UTC + 1 hour



Post new topic Reply to topic
 [ 222 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11 ... 23  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Maui Kitebeach to be banned !
PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 9:51 pm 
Offline
Very Frequent Poster
User avatar

Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2007 7:24 pm
Posts: 576
Location: Utah ish
Haole_Built wrote:
Billy B. wrote:


Billy B. Stop feeding this troll, as he will not stop with his drivel. He ran a similar thread on iKitesurf into oblivion, until the admin got fed up and locked it.


Thank you for the reminder. I some times can't believe anyone would be so stupid....Or fuck with other kiters online for fun, which he clearly states in his last post....Awesome member of the kite community fucking with other kiters he considers Morons....what a shame.

For the Record Richard M. I am disappointment that you are such a dickhead and a member of our kite community. I don't become upset at the moronic shit you write only that you try and convince others of your dribble. I guess everyone just sees you are a Troll, so I will let you continue on your chosen path. I felt pity for you and thought I would share some personal in site since you have none.

I will continue to believe what my friends on the beach tell me first hand, about this situation and not your warped delusional attempt to piece it together on your own.


Last edited by Billy B. on Wed Nov 06, 2013 10:06 pm, edited 3 times in total.

Top
Profile
 Post subject: Re: Maui Kitebeach to be banned !
PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 9:58 pm 
Offline
Frequent Poster

Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 12:36 pm
Posts: 447
Unless you live there or are directly involved you should probably just sign the petition and shut the fuck up!


Top
Profile
 Post subject: Re: Maui Kitebeach to be banned !
PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 10:01 pm 
Offline
Rare Poster

Joined: Wed Nov 06, 2013 6:43 pm
Posts: 16
I'm both a windsurfer and kiter as well as surf at the Lower break and have been a supporter in this issue for many months. We didn't think that it would grow to this proportion and we were hopeful that the DLNR would not enforce the new changes. However, because it has now gone to the level of the Governor this issue has heated up big time. Hence, we started a paper petition weeks ago and it has now gone viral. Many were not even aware of the proposed changes (many of the kiters for instance did not know). It is surprising that this morphed from one isolated incident with the kiter and family. However, you know how it works - it only takes one person to fu*k it up for everyone. Thereafter, many other issues started to take notice as the DLNR were looking for more ammunition to support this proposed change. The strongest group of supports have been the windsurfers as they will be impacted the most if they close Lowers. Personally, I think that sucks because of the fact that it all began at Ka'a Point. In any event, being a pole dancer and stringer, what is most important is that we all work in harmony to save our access sites. No matter who you are - a tourist, pro, local - we all need to respect this piece of paradise, respect the ocean and be respectfully of our fellow water men and women. We need to exhibit our unity as ocean lovers. For some reason there is way too much attitude between significant groups - stringers? Let's keep it together peeps and don't lose you're cool.


Top
Profile
 Post subject: Re: Maui Kitebeach to be banned !
PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 10:08 pm 
Offline
Frequent Poster

Joined: Sun Dec 04, 2005 11:48 pm
Posts: 365
sijandy wrote:
Unless you live there or are directly involved you should probably just sign the petition and shut the fuck up!


So you want peoples support by endorsing a position you agree with, but, you dont want them to express their opinion? Really?


Top
Profile
 Post subject: Re: Maui Kitebeach to be banned !
PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 10:18 pm 
Offline
Frequent Poster

Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 12:36 pm
Posts: 447
SalmonSlayer wrote:
sijandy wrote:
Unless you live there or are directly involved you should probably just sign the petition and shut the fuck up!


So you want peoples support by endorsing a position you agree with, but, you dont want them to express their opinion? Really?


Nope... but the people who want their beach to stay open probably do!


Top
Profile
 Post subject: Re: Maui Kitebeach to be banned !
PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 10:38 pm 
Offline
Medium Poster

Joined: Fri Sep 28, 2012 11:51 pm
Posts: 126
Location: Toronto, ON
RickI wrote:
It takes very little time to sign the petition, please help to keep this unique spot open to all these water interests now and into the future. Chris Levins of Adventure Sports Maui gave me a heads up on this, it is legitimate and a current threat to continued use of this area.


Hey Rick,

I'm wondering if you could find out from Chris L. if something has changed to put kite beach under 'threat'. Most of what follows is copy pasta from a reply I made to this sister thread on reddit.

I thought it'd be helpful to provide some links to the actual rules concerning the governance at Kite Beach on Maui and a statement of the issues as I understand them without opining, so that others may understand what's happening there.

The document in question is Chapter 256: Ocean Recreation Management Rules (and Areas). I'm guessing that file is an 'Unofficial Compilation' OCR'ed from the older, official document. The rest of my links will be to the more readable OCR'ed doc.

Kite Beach/Ka'a Point is directly adjacent to the western edge of Kanaha Beach Park, which is part of the North Maui Ocean Recreation Management Area. It is administered by the Division of Boating and Ocean Recreation, part of Hawaii's Department of Land and Natural Resources.

The rules concerning the North Maui Ocean Recreation Management Area begin on page 256-123 (176 in the PDF).

The rules concerning the Kanaha Beach Park Restricted Zones specifically is §13-256-130, starting part way down page 256-126 (179 in the PDF).

The swimming area adjacent to the kite beach is "Swimming Zone C" as laid out in part 'd' on page 256-127 (180 in the PDF).

There is a map for reference (Exhibit "AAA") on page 185 of the PDF, which is a crappier copy of the same map found on PDF page 85 of the older document.

From my reading, even if the rules are strictly enforced there is no problem for kiters so long as it's after 11am and they stay west of Ka'a Point. The trouble comes when the wind shifts east. Kiters have historically used the western side of Swim Zone C (aka the 'fish pond'/swim area/'pro pool') to come in and land. If kitesurfers are considered "a vessel or sailboard" (which I haven't seen a DLNR ruling on), they would be violating the boundary of Swim Zone C.

Apparently, this wasn't much of a problem for anyone (including the DLNR) until Phillip Bolek/Botek (I've seen both used by Maui Now) and his family started frequenting the beach. He wrote a letter to Maui Now and the DLNR in May. In order to address what he saw as a safety issue, he found the rules concerning Swim Zone C and asked the DLNR to enforce their rules. The DLNR stated that they would. The way he went about doing this and his trolling on various kite forums ruffled a lot of feathers.

These are what I understand to be 'the facts'. Understanding that I'm half an ocean and most of a continent away from the place in question, the change.org petition isn't at all clear to me--which is troubling, since I'm able to parse obscure government documents. It also sounds hyperbolic. If they'd like to see the rules concerning the swim zones changed, they should reference them and suggest changes.

While I support the spirit of the petition, I read it as a lot of bluster without much substance. The stakeholders should also consider that asking for the rules to be changed may result in the opposite of their desired outcome if Mr. Bolek/Botek and his supporters are able to influence the DLNR in his favour.

All that being said, I've signed the petition since I'd like to visit and kite there one day. But as with most internet petitions, this one strikes me as a bit nebulous.

I've sent a link/copy of this to Ocean Safety Schools, I welcome any comments, clarifications or questions.

Thanks!


Top
Profile
 Post subject: Re: Maui Kitebeach to be banned !
PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 11:36 pm 
Offline
Very Frequent Poster
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2002 1:00 am
Posts: 8249
Location: Florida
Thank you for your input jbdc. I have been reviewing similar information in the last hour which I just received, including the map of the 1988 swim zone designations. Apparently, there are both direct and indirect impacts on kiters should this administrative rule come into active enforcement.

One of the greatest impacts would be the introduction of windsurfers and other boardsports into current predominant kiting areas to the west of Ka'a Point banning from traditional areas to the east. Years back it was decided by a gentleman's agreement, to have windsurfers stay to the east or upwind of the kiters downwind or to the west. This has worked out well over the years to my knowledge. This will change and how things are worked out to integrate the two sports into a new, smaller body of water with competition for wave breaks and intervening areas is unknown at this time. I am still reviewing this new information and related impacts for kiters and other boardsports. I have worked with many different boardsports in the past in trying to maintain access in Florida when often the focus was on kiting but we still stuck together.


Top
Profile
 Post subject: Re: Maui Kitebeach to be banned !
PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2013 12:24 am 
Offline
Medium Poster

Joined: Fri Sep 28, 2012 11:51 pm
Posts: 126
Location: Toronto, ON
So--reading between the lines here--it'd seem the 'new' issue is that DLNR is now following through on their promise to Mr. Bolek/Botek (and others) that they'll enforce the existing admin rules; but at the same time, beach use has changed since the original rules were adopted.

The petition suggests that the lifeguards have moved swim zones into areas where they weren't before, and the upshot is that the DLNR will enforce both the old swimming areas and the new, leaving little space for everything which isn't swimming. I'm guessing at this because I haven't seen is any sort of statement or documentation from the DLNR (or anyone) that this is the case, or what their plans might be.

It'd be nice to have some sort of official word, but really any information about what's been going on since June would help.

As ever, thanks for bringing these things to our attention, Rick!

Hope I can get down to Delray this winter and meet you for a session somewhere away from an inlet and not at dusk--you nut. ;)


Top
Profile
 Post subject: Re: Maui Kitebeach to be banned !
PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2013 2:00 am 
Offline
Very Frequent Poster
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2002 1:00 am
Posts: 8249
Location: Florida
Yes, you have picked up on many points I just heard about myself this afternoon. There are inaccuracies in the original maps vs. metes & bounds descriptions, site use has changed, you were able to drive on the beach still in 1988. Also, beach recession has changed the layout of Ka'a Point substantially. There was no pond to speak of in 2000 and today there is the Kiddie Pond. There are divergent groups competing for space here but one way or another they have always been able to work things out. A few poor kiter behaviors may have turned the heat up on the situation too, tipping the problem for all board sports in this area. I deal with this here fairly often in access threats so it doesn't take a huge stretch of the imagination to see it as a contributing factor there. Board sports have always stuck together in my area, a normally independent and distant place, I think it is good if we would stick together in trying to protect access in Maui.

Kiters need to avoid problems and complaints by showing respect and using common sense. You can have amazing kiting sessions and never piss anyone off. True story, most of us do it all the time. I agree, I tried to find an official paper trail before posting any of this but could only find the few sources that have been previously posted here. One thing is I understand that this change can be made at the administrative level without any legislative involvement. So, the fate of this lay in the hands of some administrators and board members and how they choose to move on this matter. That factor alone potentially diminishes the paper trail available substantially as well as other advanced warnings.

Yes, it would be good to hookup when you make it down. The recent time change has taken a serious toll on after work daylight sessions here. Grab wind time when and where you can!

Thanks again for your research in this matter.


Top
Profile
 Post subject: Re: Maui Kitebeach to be banned !
PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2013 4:53 pm 
Offline
Medium Poster

Joined: Thu Sep 16, 2010 4:24 pm
Posts: 75
Yesterday I got 10 people to sign petition on my IPad

1 fellow Kiteboarders, 2 windsurfers, and the rest Maui goers!

Also went to Iwindsurf and encouraged them to sign and to consolidate forces (some windsurfers think that they should separate themselves not realizing that their launch site is also at risk)

It would be great if this petition had an overwhelming amount of signatures from all over the world, so the Maui and island governance would realize the financial impact that these " clean, healthy " sports bring to these communities !

Spread the word you all, we need help from every kite and windsurf forum across the world!

When I checked yesterday the count had gone from 744 to 1424 in 24 hrs, lets keep this growth rate going!

Cheers, Max


Top
Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic
 [ 222 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11 ... 23  Next

All times are UTC + 1 hour


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], Exabot [Bot], Google Feedfetcher, matt_81a, pecmajor, Robbylion, tautologies, Yahoo [Bot] and 20 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group