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 Post subject: Re: Maui Kitebeach to be banned !
PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2013 6:09 pm 
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sijandy wrote:
Unless you live there or are directly involved you should probably just sign the petition and shut the fuck up!

ok, i'm not living there and i'm not even indirectly involved.
and i'm not signing it because it is not ethical for me to take sides without knowing the real situation there, so i just shut the fuck up!
thaks sijandy, you made it easier for me


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 Post subject: Re: Maui Kitebeach to be banned !
PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2013 6:27 pm 
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sijandy wrote:
Unless you live there or are directly involved you should probably just sign the petition and shut the fuck up!


I'm with --eree-- on That one !

NOT signing Squat, without Knowing the FULL story (.)

Bille


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 Post subject: Re: Maui Kitebeach to be banned !
PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2013 6:49 pm 
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Location: L.A. & Ventura Counties, CA
Bille wrote:
sijandy wrote:
Unless you live there or are directly involved you should probably just sign the petition and shut the fuck up!


I'm with --eree-- on That one !

NOT signing Squat, without Knowing the FULL story (.)

Bille


madmax7 wrote:
..............
It would be great if this petition had an overwhelming amount of signatures from all over the world, so the Maui and island governance would realize the financial impact that these " clean, healthy " sports bring to these communities !
.............................
Cheers, Max


As explained below, the situation is MUCH WORSE than I thought. I suspect that the ONLY reason a non-kiter with authority to ban kiters would KEEP kiting is to retain SIGNIFICANT financial benefits for the local economy. (Although, there is a slight chance that difficult, expensive legal action might eventually get somewhere also).

eree wrote:
sijandy wrote:
Unless you live there or are directly involved you should probably just sign the petition and shut the fuck up!

ok, i'm not living there and i'm not even indirectly involved.
and i'm not signing it because it is not ethical for me to take sides without knowing the real situation there, so i just shut the fuck up!
thaks sijandy


eree, Bille and others who THINK:

You can get the best idea from going to these sites and reading any random couple dozen comments (prepare to be disappointed and not a little disgusted).

http://mauinow.com/2013/05/03/letter-kite-surfers-endanger-kids-at-kaa-point/#comments
http://mauinow.com/2013/05/10/swim-zones-to-be-enforced-at-kaa-point-over-safety-concerns/
http://mauinow.com/2013/05/03/letter-kite-surfers-endanger-kids-at-kaa-point/
Although SOME of the non-kiters posts are in the same vein, the vast majority of the pro-kiting posts are either m0r0nic personal attacks or worse yet, similar to this one from “Billy” (apparently not the same Billy B posting in this thread).
“· Billy Im gonna protect myself too with a baseball bat so, if its ok to beat up people on the beach in the name of protecting family, I can crack his skull open in the name of protecting my self. Gonna enjoy watching his head open like a coconut.”

Here is a portion of a post from one of the POLITICIANS involved (from MAY):

“Posted By Fred Garvin on May 7, 2013 9:12 pm
This is the email just received this evening from the Executive Assistant to the Councilmember Elle Cochran; please read and then judge for yourself.....> Date: Tue, 7 May 2013 16:15:53 -1000 > From: Elle.Cochran@mauicounty.us > To: john.buck@co.maui.hi.us; philipbolek@hotmail.com; Gladys.Baisa@mauicounty.us; Riki.Hokama@mauicounty.us; Robert.Carroll@mauicounty.us > CC: Archie.Kalepa@co.maui.hi.us; Brianne.Savage@co.maui.hi.us; Ed.R.Underwood@hawaii.gov; Nicholas.K.Giaconi@hawaii.gov > Subject: Re: Ka'a Point Beach Park Harassment > > Aloha Philip, > >...................> > DOBOR administrative rules can be accessed at the following link: http://hawaii.gov/dlnr/dbor/borrules.htm > For your reference I have attached the specific section of the rules relating to the Maui North Shore Swim Zones. See pages 5 & 6 regarding Kanaha Beach Park Restricted Zone C. > > DOBOR's Main Office can be contacted at 808-587-1967, and DOBOR's Maui District Manager can be contacted at 808-243-5824, if you have more questions. > > Thank you for sharing your concern with our office. [b]The behavior of these kite surfers is shameful. Maui is credited with being the home of kite surfing and we should be embarrassed if this is the attitude that is being promoted.” [Emphasis added]

There are OVER 500 comments. Read as many as you can stomach and ask yourself if you were a non-kiter with a familly, “Would you want to go to a beach that allowed kiters?” .

The WORST PART is that anti-kiters will be able to use these comments for YEARS to come, to show that kiters are irresponsible, violent, unreasonable A$$HOLES who will want to UNREASONABLY take over the entire beach.

Richard M.
Malibu Kitesurfing - since 2002
(310) - 430 - KITE (5483)
http://www.MalibuKitesurfing.NET
kfRichard@MalibuKitesurfing.NET


Last edited by RichardM on Thu Nov 07, 2013 10:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Maui Kitebeach to be banned !
PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2013 7:21 pm 
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Location: texas
RichardM wrote:
The WORST PART is that anti-kiters will be able to use these comments for YEARS to come, to show that kiters are irresponsible, violent, unreasonable A$$HOLES who will want to UNREASONABLY take over the entire beach.

Richard M.
Malibu Kitesurfing - since 2002
(310) - 430 - KITE (5483)
http://www.MalibuKitesurfing.NET
kfRichard@MalibuKitesurfing.NET


richardM:

somehow you always seems to outdo yourself. its incredible really. this last comment for example.....For years to come non kiters will be able to blah blah blah.......

here is some news in case you are new to the interwebs. all forums are places where know it alls gather to be right and cast down morons who are inferior in their knowledge base of said topic. a magical place where everyone is right and just, but everyone is also magically an idiot at the same time. it truly is a sight to behold.

most rational people can see this and thus do not form their opinions from threads that are many years old and filled with the rantings of god knows who.

i will put this in all caps so that you understand, i may punctuate randomly to further speak your language so as to get you to really really REALLY understand

YOU HAVE NO CREDIBILITY ON THIS FORUM.


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 Post subject: Re: Maui Kitebeach to be banned !
PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2013 7:45 pm 
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Location: Save a life...adopt a Pitbull
Bille, Eree and whoever else.

Simple story that I heard about 8 years ago.
Kiteboarders cleaned up a nasty beach that was being used exclusively by people taking illegal hard drugs and for illicit sexual conduct in public.
The kiters made it into something fantastic for the last 15 years.
That is the story of how Ka'a Point became the now famous Kite Beach.

__________________________________________________________

The beach has become a place that is now attractive to others.
One of those others wants to own the beach, and has called upon laws that were in place before kiting, sup existed and is bent on banning these and several other sporting beach/water activities so he and his wife and four year old child can swim in a beach right next to a sewage water treatment plant.
There are many, many other Maui beaches more suited to their frolicking at the waters edge.
This other (Mr and Mrs Bolek) is/are transplants from Michigan, who have only lived in Hawaii for the last four years and on Maui for about a year.
They are ignorant of Hawaiian culture, and want to do things the way they are done in Michigan (and many other places).
This other is forcing the hand of the authorities who have the job of enforcing the existing (25+ years old) rules at this little beach that nobody cared about until the kiters made it a safe cleaner beach.

The worst thing that could happen to Mr. / Mrs. and 4 year old Bolek Jr, is that they will go to a much nicer swimming beach three miles away to do their frolicking, if they decide they can't live and let live.
Remember, no child has been harmed by a kiter, in any way, on this beach.
This is just a couple who think that their child is the most important thing in the world, which is nice but a bit selfish to subject the rest of Maui to their personal opinion of their child.
We all love our children, but these people have a strange way of showing it.
If they are truly worried, they have a beautiful swimming beach three miles down the road, that has ZERO KITES to endanger their child.
They care more about a fight than protecting their child from their perceived concerns.

The worst that can happen to Kiters, Windsurfers, SUP Paddlers, Kayakers, Outrigger Kayakers, is that they will be banned from using this beach and the the waters that this beach provides access to.
Kiters and windsurfers already have limited access all over Hawaii and all over the planet and closing the most famous kite beach in the world would be a huge shame.

That is the gist of this story, no matter what Malibu Richard says or the nutcases from Michigan.
If you care about your kiteboarding brothers and sisters, ignore the bullshite and sign the petition.


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 Post subject: Re: Maui Kitebeach to be banned !
PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2013 8:03 pm 
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Posts: 360
Bille wrote:
sijandy wrote:
Unless you live there or are directly involved you should probably just sign the petition and shut the fuck up!


I'm with --eree-- on That one !

NOT signing Squat, without Knowing the FULL story (.)

Bille


ditto

And the attempts to squash dissenting opinions and info contrary to the popular narritive on this forum are a sign of the problem. I suggest the local kiteboarders take a good hard look at how their behavior may have contributed to this situation. I am hard pressed to believe that kite boarders with an attitude did not contribute to this problem in some way. Is it really just one completely unreasonable individual causing all this ruckus? Clean up your own house too. You dont need preexisting knowledge of laws to know that you should go out of your way to steer clear of swimmers. Claiming ignorance of a law is not an excuse for not exercising common sense and common courtesy.

So you cleaned up a nasty beach for your own use and now others use the beach too. Unless you established some sort of exclusive use zone, claiming you were there first is not relevant. It may seem unfair, but that is life.

Good luck fighting the possible ban. I think you will prevail. Your real challenge will be policing your own to make sure kiters do not contribute the catalyst for this to happen again and again..


Last edited by SalmonSlayer on Thu Nov 07, 2013 9:08 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Maui Kitebeach to be banned !
PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2013 8:11 pm 
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If you care about your kiteboarding brothers and sisters, ignore the bullshite and sign the petition.

What oldnbroken said!


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 Post subject: Re: Maui Kitebeach to be banned !
PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2013 8:18 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2004 1:40 pm
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Location: L.A. & Ventura Counties, CA
coleman wrote:
RichardM wrote:
The WORST PART is that anti-kiters will be able to use these comments for YEARS to come, to show that kiters are irresponsible, violent, unreasonable A$$HOLES who will want to UNREASONABLY take over the entire beach.

Richard M.
Malibu Kitesurfing - since 2002
(310) - 430 - KITE (5483)
http://www.MalibuKitesurfing.NET
kfRichard@MalibuKitesurfing.NET


richardM:

somehow you always seems to outdo yourself. its incredible really. this last comment for example.....For years to come non kiters will be able to blah blah blah.......

here is some news in case you are new to the interwebs. all forums are places where know it alls gather to be right and cast down morons who are inferior in their knowledge base of said topic. a magical place where everyone is right and just, but everyone is also magically an idiot at the same time. it truly is a sight to behold.

most rational people can see this and thus do not form their opinions from threads that are many years old and filled with the rantings of god knows who.

i will put this in all caps so that you understand, i may punctuate randomly to further speak your language so as to get you to really really REALLY understand

YOU HAVE NO CREDIBILITY ON THIS FORUM.


And that's why you find it's necessary for you use your superior intellect and precious time to try to negate my opinion ?

Or is it that you need to try to reinforce your WISHFUL THINKING ?

Richard M.
Malibu Kitesurfing - since 2002
(310) - 430 - KITE (5483)
http://www.MalibuKitesurfing.NET
kfRichard@MalibuKitesurfing.NET


Last edited by RichardM on Thu Nov 07, 2013 8:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Maui Kitebeach to be banned !
PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2013 8:18 pm 
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The petition is not taking the right approach and I will not sign it for this reason. Nor will I sign something that is so one sided.

Reposted from our local forum which was posted from Marina's fb page which originally came from Nate Volk. From my limited outside perspective, I think it sums up the situation pretty well.

Quote:
"Seriously, this is getting ridiculous. Look at the map and the rules. It does not restrict kite access to the pro pool, just the inside upwind pond, and the super shallow section of the boneyard. Let the kids and the public have the pond, and just launch and land literally 20' downwind. As kiters, we should be respectful of public access and not ask to dominate the entire area. It does however, restrict the very upwind beach in zones A and B. Windsurfers use that beach exclusivelly, not kiters. Shame on the kiters who started this whole issue with the family in the pond. It might be a tough lesson for the kite world, beach users will always win. Be respectful and nice. With the kiters behavior that has been shown, we dont deserve access there. We need to learn to share the beach appropriately. Great picture of Baldwin beach by the way.

I know exactly who you are battling with. I've been to the beach and watched and listened, and frankly what the kiters have done down there is flat out wrong. It doesn't matter what Phillip has done or did, we can only be held responsible for what we have done. Now, if the rules are enforced, kiters might get wet when the wind is east, or have to park at the beginners beach. The enforced rules wouldn't change anything about pro pool, but it would ruin kooks beach, and all the windsurfing schools up the beach a ways.

I also think its ridiculous that nowhere on any of the stuff the kiters are asking about is an actual map. Its made to sound like 3000' of kiting beach is going to be taken away. It sounds like you are just asking for signatures to make your point, not for any valid reason other than to not be proven wrong. Even the aerial photo you posted doesn't show the closed swim zones, but shows the kite zone, which wouldn't be affected. I'm guessing that you guys know that if you actually posted facts about what was really happening, people wouldn't sign your petition.

The real people at risk here are the windsurfers. And they are at risk because of the terrible way that the kiters have handled the situations at Ka'a Point. The best way to make this go away is to swallow your pride and make nice with the families at the beach, because in any legal battle, the majority of the public will always win. Kiters are not and will never be the majority of the beach users. Everyone down there needs to relax and remember that its only kiting. We are the rollerbladers of the ocean."


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kaapoint map.jpg
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 Post subject: Re: Maui Kitebeach to be banned !
PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2013 8:45 pm 
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There is a lot of controversy in this situation. If the existing administrative code is enforced, it does look like windsurfers and SUP'er will lose access to traditional access areas in the east. All those displaced boarders will likely head into the existing kiting area to the west. This seems likely to bring crowding and possible contention for limited space on the water and in the breaks. It does NOT look on the basis of recent information, that kiters will lose access to anything other than the Kiddie Pool, at this time.* My apologies for any misinformation I relayed in this regard, it was certainly not my intent to do so. There are still potential negative consequences for kiters if the old code is enforced however.

It also seems credible that poor kiter behavior may have contributed to this problem in a significant way. Take it as given, kiters need to behave responsibly, poor behavior and having to fight its consequences is getting way too old. I've been doing it for 12 years and it doesn't get better with time. It is usually a short list of kiters contributing to the problem in a serious way. Considering that we may have brought this mess on and given the past pattern in my experience of all board sports joining together to fight access threats, I think we have an obligation to help the situation if we can.


Let's take a look at what this petition says:

"To:
Please protect ocean access at Kanaha Beach.
Change the outdated rules to reflect the current use.
Sincerely,
[Your name]"

From: http://chn.ge/17PSVaq


As petitions go, it isn't overwhelming or heavy handed. Looking over the 1988 HAC's they are out of date with current site use in several ways. This petition isn't an end in itself, it is a point of beginning for discussions which we can hope will follow in a productive way by local watermen/stakeholders on Maui with authorities. Such discussions may or may not happen at this point. The petition drive may have significant bearing on whether authorities simply act or consider input on alternative approaches.


* All this ruckus and controversy could easily bring unhealthy pressure to bear on maintaining the all important FAA waiver permitting kiting. We need to cool things down at the beach and elsewhere. Time to come across as responsible, concerned adults interested in avoiding problems. Much of this will have to happen on Maui and at kitebeach. I have little doubt that the vast majority of kiters don't contribute to the problem but we need to help the few messing things up to cool their behavior. We need more Aloha all around in short.

.


Last edited by RickI on Thu Nov 07, 2013 9:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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