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 Post subject: Re: Lofting/Deadly Dragging
PostPosted: Sat Nov 16, 2013 2:09 am 
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I always thought 'low and go' would prevent accidental lofting. You may get dragged though i believe thats better than what I've seen when people get lofted (2xs on non-c kites). Both lofting events resulted in injuries. Though minor those 2 definitely don't fly their kites at 12 any longer. I saw someone the other day flying his kite at 12 while standing on the beach during really strong gusty winds. Scared the sh*t out of me; enough so I sternly told him to put his kite low toward the water and get in if he was going kiteboarding. An ounce of prevention.....


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 Post subject: Re: Lofting/Deadly Dragging
PostPosted: Sat Nov 16, 2013 2:38 pm 
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Rick, you know the best from your database, when loftings happen, what does the rider do?
Don't most of them steer the kite and yank it thru the powerzone?

The accidents I saw personally had the kite yank thru the powerzone and the rider got accelerated...no chance of any control whatsoever, and no time to release.

Heard the story about the lofting in Cabarete many years a go...a guy got lofted big time and flew over buildings, road and power lines...then steered the kite so he gets into a tree and released.
He flew it, being a paraglider...

And yes, landboarder will most likely do the same and not panic, they know the game on land.

Still, a fast kite is more dangerous than a slow kite (never mind the size here).


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 Post subject: Re: Lofting/Deadly Dragging
PostPosted: Sat Nov 16, 2013 5:07 pm 
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fast kites? you bet they can create more horse power in less time than big sluggish kites...

on the low and go jingle : as with any cute little catch phrase its main attraction can be found in rhythm of the phonics....

in truth the bad air will be found attached and swirling off the ground; the entire rainbow of wind window is available for zooming etc.

it's pretty clear if you get yanked your ground speed is the more difficult to deal with...plow a little sand wondering where's the fucking kite now....damn you're in bad shape, laying on your release.

enough...

I contend the better place to have your kite is just above 45 degrees...favor the up component over the plow...

you can see everything, you're upright with no sand in your nose, packed in your lower lip, coating your wide eyed look of surprise...

jingles? fuck a bunch of jingles...rely on your wits...yup it's that kind of crap shoot...

I heard this morning there's a casino that advertises 20% of your losses will be refunded to thier players monthly.

is there any doubt about folks being half wits when it comes to any risk reward activity...??

all things considered, you don't have to be nuts to kite, but it makes it a bit less threatening..

fault? who can fault the dice? you pay your money and you takes your chances...

ok, got- go, stringing fence today...


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 Post subject: Re: Lofting/Deadly Dragging
PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2013 3:37 am 
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I have seen a lot of secondary loops, slamming, because people are upside down/ flying through the air on the first one so correct completely the wrong way with worse consequences.

Have had 2 friend go flying at launch - one over a dune - then over a 60ft tree over a road and landed in a golf course - very skilled rider stayed in control - landed a bit hard but walked away.

Another launched in front of dune on an older kite - hit hard by an updraught shot up 20-30 ft - hovered a bit then decided to drop and release as over the dude was not so friendly.. (onto very soft sand) - hit v hard but ok - v difficult decision for him..

I'll add in single stage throwing or multiple - b interesting 2 c (sources won't b easy tho)


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 Post subject: Re: Lofting/Deadly Dragging
PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2013 3:41 am 
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Most of the time Toby, not much until impact. Most just freeze until they strike which sometimes isn't that long. There are exceptions like Paco King of the Air in Cabarete you described from 2002. He was lofted by a 52 kt. gust from an obvious squall about 850 ft. horizontally and over 100 ft. high. He did steer towards a pine tree lacking anything soft in that area. He was out of the hospital in a few days and kiting again. He had been paragliding rarely but apparently picked up enough to help himself out in this accident.

Then there was the more recent 1200 ft. lofting again about 100 ft. high in which the kiter kept his head, was flying a bow kite and tried to control things. The thing is on the way up the upward component was sufficiently large to where it was largely non-responsive to the control bar in reducing his ascent aloft. He did manage to hit a postage stamp sized area of shallow water between land, seawall and fencing and came away without any real injury. There was the kiter who intentionally went out in microburst weather and was initially lofted to about 75 ft. which he landed at high speed amazingly enough. He didn't land the next one which likely knocked him unconscious, again rest in peace. There was a more minor lofting in Miami where a guy flew within 15 ft. of me into a car doing some serious damage to it. He was a rocket scientist to kiting obviously enough but didn't loop the kite prior to inpact.

Some do involuntarily loop their kite, like Kevin appeared to do in Ft. Lauderdale in 2007. Some keep it more or less over head. That is what happened to me in 2000, I went up about 35 ft. above the beach and inland 165 ft.. I tried to unhook but was unable to, no QR were popularly in use yet. I ended up draping the kite and lines over a house roof about 40 ft. above water level. That was after hitting the house myself of course. Then there was the case in Portugal in 2005 in which the kiter reportedly flew over 1750 ft. downwind and over 300 ft. high. I doubt he looped his way up there but probably just hung in and flew the thing, unfortunately into the side of a mountain, rest in peace. So, in loftings there is a mix, of control, lack of control, involuntary looping, saves and severe impact. There is no one consistent way in which they happen or turnout either.

People go on about what they would do when lofted, well it is good to think about and prepare for but may be of limited value in a number of cases. Once the high wind emergency is on you may have only seconds to react properly and even then may still be hurt. We need to focus on not getting lofted in the first place which is fairly easy in my experience, once you are paying attention anyway. If you ignore your environment and the nasty stuff it can throw at you or intentionally going into it, then you are setting yourself up.


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 Post subject: Re: Lofting/Deadly Dragging
PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2013 6:19 am 
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longwhitecloud wrote:
I have seen a lot of secondary loops, slamming, because people are upside down/ flying through the air on the first one so correct completely the wrong way with worse consequences.

The QR is always in the same place, no matter your relation to ground or sky...


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 Post subject: Re: Lofting/Deadly Dragging
PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2013 8:04 am 
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True, but it's pretty useless once u got momentum in my experience, and then u got QRs around still that are utter 5hit too.


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 Post subject: Re: Lofting/Deadly Dragging
PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2013 9:07 am 
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longwhitecloud wrote:
True, but it's pretty useless once u got momentum in my experience, and then u got QRs around still that are utter 5hit too.

You won't get yanked the second time though. And QRs that won't release without tension are shit - side-pull (Ozone, PL) are such a bad idea.


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 Post subject: Re: Lofting/Deadly Dragging
PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2013 5:01 pm 
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yes, quick releases should work without tension. Just before you get yanked, and during when there is a second of slack.

Thx Rick for the info. I agree, loftings have to be avoided in the first place. That's why I keep checking forecasts with gusts forecasted in areas where you don't have steady trade winds, but frontal winds.
This way I avoid gusty days and maybe a freak gust. But, of course can happen anytime, but the chances are much less.


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 Post subject: Re: Lofting/Deadly Dragging
PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2013 5:20 pm 
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the bottom line here....

no matter what you think of the minutiae , one aspect of getting yanked remains constant!

and that one hard fact remains unassailable :

" You either see it coming, or You take the Hit"

and I coined that phrase.....there's a truth there that supersedes any notion of prevention.



after all is said and done that adviso remains the ultimate descriptor of what did or did not happen

can you read a sky's mind?, divine intention from the eather?

those are questions that matter, snake charmers and kiters play the very same game....

the world's a basket and there are those who would wield a flute....

look sharp out there....
fokiten
.


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