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Flysurfer Speed4 Lotus released

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Marc_87
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Re: Flysurfer Speed4 Lotus released

Postby Marc_87 » Fri Dec 20, 2013 9:23 pm

plummet wrote:
TeabagVic wrote:2 Questions:

Question 1: You guys say that the Speed 4 Lotus jumps higher than Speed 3.

Speed 4 Lotus 12m jump higher than Speed3 12m, are you certain? I.E, if I were to buy one and try it for 5-10 sessions, ill be able to jump higher than Speed3 guaranteed???

Not saying that is impossible, just impressive if you are certain of that.

Question 2: Will the Speed4 Lotus have a more similar feel to the Speed3 than the Speed4 "regular" 8m and 10m has?

When buying/trying the Speed 4 10m, I was a little disappointed about its difference compare to Speed3 (yes lots of improvements but decrease in hang time and jump height compare to Speed3). I felt that this kite should have been given another name than Speed4.

Thank you for any information Flysurfer.


Its higher aspect. so its possible it will jump higher? lighter material means it will turn faster and therefor be able to jump higher?...

lets face it I'm just postering,

lets see what what the review say from average joe's when they get on them.


It has the same aspect ratio as the Speed 3, it is also 5.8

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Re: Flysurfer Speed4 Lotus released

Postby Okinawa Kiter » Fri Dec 20, 2013 11:43 pm

Speed Lotus has a 6AR Speed 3 5.8AR

I remember the days when every kite company gave you the AR of the kite, now no one does. The speed as far as I know is the highest AR kite on the market. Wonder why they don't and no one even talks about AR anymore? The ultimate goal being high AR with quick turning speed and awesome relaunch. My S3 12m is almost there but a bit on the slow side for turning and they are saying the 15m speed Lotus turns like the 12, so this means turning speed will be perfect on the Lotus 12. Also due to the waterproof material the air is tighter inside so less wingtip deformation, so now I think this maybe the perfect kite (for me).

I was out on my Ozone Edge 11m and my speed 3 12m the same day and I love them both very much, but where the flysurfer excels is in wind range. At 100kgs the 11 Edge gets me going in 16 knots up to say 28 ish, the S3 11 knots up to 28 ish. Also jumps are higher and longer on the S3. Also upwind on the S3 is so good it's actually a bit of a pain, as you have to keep jumping or heading downwind to kite in the same area. Other friend on SB had to tack 4 times to my 1 or go waaaay out then tack twice. This is good when wind is marginal as you can get up wind in the blows then have a lot of down wind area as a margin for the lulls.

I never drop my kites in the water, but worry if the bridles on the Speed will end up in tears one day, so maybe if doing a lot of new tricks and dropping the kite a lot the Edge would be my choice. It certainly does everything very well and my 17 Edge is a light wind machine, while I hated my 19 S3, was like flying a paraglider. My weapon of choice would be a Speed lotus 12m and Edge 19m Done. The Lotus 12m and split board is the ultimate travel setup I think.

The other good point is there has been many times where you show up at the beach at around 11am and it's blowing 14-15 knots so put up my 17, then in 2 hours it's picking up to 22+ so then drop the kite and setup my 11. sometimes 3 times in a day, so with the Speed 12 don't have to do this. Still Love my Ozones though. ;)

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Re: Flysurfer Speed4 Lotus released

Postby Séb » Sat Dec 21, 2013 1:24 am

Okinawa Kiter wrote:Speed Lotus has a 6AR Speed 3 5.8AR

The speed as far as I know is the highest AR kite on the market. Wonder why they don't and no one even talks about AR anymore?


That was an error from Flysurfer (it is now corrected on their website since few days), the AR of the new Speed4 Lotus is the same as the Speed3 at 5.8. Also, Elf and ParAAvis make kites with much higher AR then the Speed4.

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Re: Flysurfer Speed4 Lotus released

Postby Okinawa Kiter » Sat Dec 21, 2013 1:46 am

Correct, just saw 2 days ago said 6AR now 5.8.
Never heard of the other High AR kites do they make kitesurfing kites or just paragliders and kites for land?

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Re: Flysurfer Speed4 Lotus released

Postby Séb » Sat Dec 21, 2013 4:17 am

They make closed cell foil kites that are mainly use in snowkiting competition. By far the best kites for racing in snowkiting, mainly in LW.

http://paraavis.cz/?page_id=28
http://www.kite-site.ru/joker4eng.html

They make some kites up to an AR of 8 !!

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Re: Flysurfer Speed4 Lotus released

Postby alexrider » Wed Dec 25, 2013 2:46 am

TeabagVic wrote:2 Questions:
.....
When buying/trying the Speed 4 10m, I was a little disappointed about its difference compare to Speed3 (yes lots of improvements but decrease in hang time and jump height compare to Speed3). I felt that this kite should have been given another name than Speed4.

Thank you for any information Flysurfer.


I don't know if it was the issue is fixed with the latest Speed4s 8 and 10, but the ones I had were delivered with the front lines way too short, with the following consequences:
- no where near the power the kite should be able to deliver when properly tuned, meaning lower crappy jumps and miserable low end.
- kite unable to turn in a tight radius (goes to the zenith when changing direction, quite noticeable in higher winds), really no good for wave riding
- the safety line was also too short, pulling the kite in one direction as a result of the disymmetric pull when the front lines take most of the load (in higher winds, the safety line is in tension)
I've shortened the back lines by 10 cm and the kite now behaves and performs incredible. The best of FS range. Read somewhere a guy had to shorten the back lines by 25 cm! Quite unacceptable that kites of atmospheric prices are not tuned correctly right out the bag. The reason I was given for such short front lines was to allow for the line stretching during the first hours, but after 10 hours, the problem wasn't fixed.
When properly tuned, the kite should start to stall when the bar in pulled in completely and the depower strap on "full power".
BTW, shame FS reintroduced the draggy :naughty: jet-flaps on the big sizes.

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Re: Flysurfer Speed4 Lotus released

Postby Okinawa Kiter » Wed Dec 25, 2013 3:56 am

Hope my new Lotus doesn't have these kind of issues or I'll be sending it back for a refund. My Speed 3 was perfect out of the bag, and has been ever since. Never understood why the bar and lines couldn't be removed or adjusted. My outside lines have small rings on them. If they just had a knot then you could adjust line length like any other kite. Is there a reason for this? Wonder if the new ones can have lines adjusted after some stretch. So close to being a perfect kite. Plus 1 bar 2-3 kites, why do I need a bar for each kite. Kind of defeats the small pack down size. Guessing just trying to profit as much as they can.
Last edited by Okinawa Kiter on Fri Dec 27, 2013 12:31 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Flysurfer Speed4 Lotus released

Postby Kamikuza » Wed Dec 25, 2013 6:57 am

The overly-long rear lines were to allow them to shrink without being a PITA later...

You can remove the bar/lines but it's a LOT more convenient when packing or setting up to NOT have to attach lines - for sure, it saves tangles in the bridles and misconnections. MUCH better to leave them attached...

Line length is adjusted with the Black Rope that the front lines attach to...
The problem with same-length new lines is that as the rears shrink, you soon run out of adjustment at the Black Rope while there's still plenty of life in the lines :( I'm going to get around to setting up an under-the-floaters adjustment system too.

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Re: Flysurfer Speed4 Lotus released

Postby alexrider » Wed Dec 25, 2013 12:52 pm

Kamikuza wrote:...
Line length is adjusted with the Black Rope that the front lines attach to...
The problem with same-length new lines is that as the rears shrink, you soon run out of adjustment at the Black Rope while there's still plenty of life in the lines :( I'm going to get around to setting up an under-the-floaters adjustment system too.

1. The back line are not shrinking! The front lines stretch more then the back lines, which make the back line appear to shrink. Kites are usually delivered out of the bag not tuned for max power to allow for the stretching during the few first hours of riding. But the allowance was way off.
2. You cannot lengthen the black rope because you make the turning problem I mentioned a lot worse because the too short safety line is in permanent tension when you lengthen the front lines. That's why you must resort to shortening the back lines.
Sp4s definitely had a bridle and/or main lines manufacturing and/or design and/or quality test problem.

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Re: Flysurfer Speed4 Lotus released

Postby Séb » Wed Dec 25, 2013 1:45 pm

I think that the back lines shrink! Well, that is what I have found after some measurements I did few years ago, comparing new lines length with the same kite few months later. On my Speed4 10m the back lines where way too long when new and I had to make a double knot on them to get the kite to fly ok. But after few sessions it was perfect and after about 3 months I had to remove the double knot to get it to fly perfectly. In fact, just like what they say in the manual :

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