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 Post subject: Re: kite looping on deathride: I drowned, died and come back
PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 7:15 pm 
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Laughingman wrote:
The other persons argument was if your harness has pins to let the handle pass handle go then it is safer because it gives you a 3rd possible release if the leash malfunctions (or you can't reach it).
My guess is it would be as hard to find these pins while being dragged backwards as it was for you to find your knife....



That's not a bad argument. My argument to counter that is if you front leash most of the time you do NOT have to fully release the kite because after you hit the first quick release you are getting pulled forward and can see what is going on, you can see maybe it is not a death loop, just a wind gust, or maybe a blown strut whatever.

If you are leased backwards, any single time you are in trouble you have to completely release the kite and go swimming. You can't see what is going on so you after you hit the QR1 and get pulled backwards, boom you have to release the kite no matter what. You can't see what is going on!

Front leash = less swimming.


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 Post subject: Re: kite looping on deathride: I drowned, died and come back
PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 7:47 pm 
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I agree, the "handle pass leash attachment" is called that for a reason. It is designed to be used by those riders who are unhooking and doing handle passes. I think anyone else should be attaching their leash to the front of their harness, and all harnesses should come with a point that is meant just for that.


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 Post subject: Re: kite looping on deathride: I drowned, died and come back
PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 8:08 pm 
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Laughingman wrote:
edt wrote:
mr moon wrote:
THEY STILL CLIP THE BLOODY LEASH TO THE BACK OF THE HARNESS!!!


Quoted for truth.


Funny I was just having this debate on thechickenloop.com
The other persons argument was if your harness has pins to let the handle pass handle go then it is safer because it gives you a 3rd possible release if the leash malfunctions (or you can't reach it).
My guess is it would be as hard to find these pins while being dragged backwards as it was for you to find your knife....


Indeed... In my case it would have made no difference whatsoever. The trouble is that you are pulled backwards at crazy speed. The scenario is horrid and people cannot understand how your love and passion can suddenly turn into your own killer while you are just the helpless victim.

The only way to prevent a kite from a powered death loop is on 5 lines where on release the kite flags on one line only with no power...


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 Post subject: Re: kite looping on deathride: I drowned, died and come back
PostPosted: Tue Dec 24, 2013 4:23 pm 
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Im msd youre hear to tell the story! My god!


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 Post subject: Re: kite looping on deathride: I drowned, died and come back
PostPosted: Wed Dec 25, 2013 1:45 am 
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crabnebula wrote:
Im msd youre hear to tell the story! My god!


thank you, glad to be here to…! I have been determined ever since to make my story public and wake up the community on some key safety points. Despite this, so many people don't bother to listen and they keep gambling with their luck.. :cool2:


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 Post subject: Re: kite looping on deathride: I drowned, died and come back
PostPosted: Fri Dec 27, 2013 5:58 pm 
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Mr. Moon,
I'm glad you survived and appreciate you sharing your story. What year RRD Global bar were you using? Did it have the mini 5th line system, that basically pulls on both front lines, to give the rear lines slack (depower). It is my opinion that this system is unsafe. A better safety system is one which flags the kite out on one line. All safety systems should be tested in all wind conditions.
http://www.kiteforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2382131


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 Post subject: Re: kite looping on deathride: I drowned, died and come back
PostPosted: Sat Dec 28, 2013 11:38 am 
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thanks buddy. it was the 2011/12 bar with that stupid system with kite flagging on the front lines: it does NOT DEPOWER the kite. It's obsolete and extremely dangerous.. I'm going to load my accident video on YouTube as I feel like warning all RRD (unaware) users…
You can only depower a kite flagging it on one single line, especially in strong winds.
Glad you made this point.


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 Post subject: Re: kite looping on deathride: I drowned, died and come back
PostPosted: Sun Dec 29, 2013 6:12 am 
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Janus already mentioned this early on in this thread, but it is worth repeating that it makes sense to have a "mechanical fuse" in your safety leash. Your leash should be strong enough to keep the kite attached when it is flagging out (= at least 50% depowered, hopefully more), but it should not be strong enough to drag you full speed behind a looping kite. I have found that a nylon cable tie (3/16 x 8") is about the right strength for me. You can buy a whole bag at home depot for a couple of bucks and you can easily replace the tie when it gets worn.

These cable ties also work well to shorten your leash when you attach in the front of your harness. Fold the leash over itself twice, and hold it all together with cable ties at the top and bottom.

By the way, the spring loaded carabiners, that are used standard on many leashes, and are shown on the pictures early in the thread can be a bit of a hazard themselves. When your lines go slack it can get caught in the carabiner and cause your kite to loop when it powers back up. This is much less likely to happen with a trigger shackle.


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 Post subject: Re: kite looping on deathride: I drowned, died and come back
PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2013 3:31 pm 
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If it was truly 40kns, 7m is too big for all but the best riders. Riding too big of kites and having to keep the bar all the way out is always dangerous.

Knives are completely useless unless you have time and are not moving fast. If you are getting pulled by a looping kite, the force of the water will knock the knife out of your hand. If you have a "kite knife" you wont even be able to get the lines in the slot. With a hunting knife, it will either get knocked out of your hand or you will stab yourself. Knives can be useful if you are not getting pulled too fast but then you can usually find a better way.

Kites generally get into a "death looping" scenario by the lines getting wrapped around the bar, board etc. When a kite crashes, if the lines stay tight enough in the water, they won't get looped. I've seen single line flagging kites get looped around the bar as much as mini 5ths.

Has anyone who rides suicide ever had a line wrap around the bar? I have not even with some bad wrecks. It seems like the lines stay tight enough to keep this from happening.


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 Post subject: Re: kite looping on deathride: I drowned, died and came back
PostPosted: Tue Dec 31, 2013 12:52 am 
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we wrote:
If it was truly 40kns, 7m is too big for all but the best riders. Riding too big of kites and having to keep the bar all the way out is always dangerous.

40 gusting to 45+ to be precise. Not the best rider in the world but experienced enough to be comfortably riding a 7mt on a 135 twin tip at nearly 90Kg in weight. I w as safely and happily enjoying a fantastic session.. It was the perfect size kite for me that day (I always ride a smaller size rather than a bigger one).

we wrote:
Knives are completely useless unless you have time and are not moving fast. If you are getting pulled by a looping kite, the force of the water will knock the knife out of your hand. If you have a "kite knife" you wont even be able to get the lines in the slot. With a hunting knife, it will either get knocked out of your hand or you will stab yourself. Knives can be useful if you are not getting pulled too fast but then you can usually find a better way.

Actually had plenty of time before drowning to operate a knife, and I can assure you my hook knife would have cut the safety line at that tension, easily. There are several specific types of knives that are totally safe to operate in extreme conditions, and I can assure you while you are in those scenarios you'll prefer to have one than NOT to have one, as it's your only way out of it. Knives are extremely useful, actually vital!!!

we wrote:
Kites generally get into a "death looping" scenario by the lines getting wrapped around the bar, board etc. When a kite crashes, if the lines stay tight enough in the water, they won't get looped.

Not necessarily. In my case in fact the kite started looping due to a fault in the actual stitching of the canopy, resulting in a slightly asymmetrical shape of the kite: faulty manufacture. It's rare but can happen. The kite was crashing and relaunching crazily, ending up in death loop.


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