gwicke wrote:foilholio, I maintain my point that sticking with a conventional definition of mixer output changes (A, B, C, Z movement)
This is not to do with mixer output per say but the ratios hence the use of :::
"A" has never been used in mixer ratios because it doesn't change.
gwicke wrote:relative to mixer input (movement between front & back line)
nor have front or back lines been represented in mixer ratios, though you are welcome to.
gwicke wrote:remains more useful and less confusing
What is confusing is to redefine how RATIOs are written as you are doing. If a person understands ratios, which are quite simple, then finds people discussing mixers, which also are quite simple, but are being talked about with a unique definition of ratios then well a simple subject becomes unnecessarily difficult.
gwicke wrote: and captures substantial differences in behavior between different mixers that other definitions do not.
this makes no sense.
gwicke wrote:I think the alternate definition in terms of the Z output came up when the Diablo line changed the Z output ratio from 1 to 3/2
No there is no alternate method other than your misunderstanding.
gwicke wrote: The short form notation (4:2:1 for 1/4 : 1/2 : 1)
This is not how you write a ratio. 4:2:1 does not equal 1/4:1/2:1 if it is 1/4B:1/2C:Z1. 1/4B:1/2C:Z1 could equal 0.25B:0.5C:1Z or 1B:2C:4Z or 4Z:2C:1B or 16Z:8C:4B. 4 does not equal 1/4 ok?
gwicke wrote:became awkward at that point
??? the only awkward thing is why a couple here can't understand how ratios are written!
gwicke wrote: which prompted the effort to re-scale the ratios to avoid a fractional Z output ratio.
Again you don't understand how ratios are written and I am not sure why I am explaining this over and over as it is basic basic math. You don't need a faction or decimals in ratios though you can, you don't even need a 1.
jakemoore wrote:Maybe more people in the world speak Chinese and Spanish but no sense telling kite forum people they should change their ways.
This is math the most universal language in the universe. If in some other "language" A=4 and B=1/4 A still does not =B.
jakemoore wrote:I think most of the people who did the Speed 1 mods talked about the mixers in terms of fraction of movement relative to the bar.
E.G. 6:2:1 means
A moves 0
B moves 1/6
C moves 1/2
Z moves 1/1
Congratulations you may or may not have had a unique use of RATIOs that no one except your tiny little corner on the web talking about a tiny little corner of a tiny little sport understood! Now for the good of helping people better understand "mixers" do you think it is wise to continue abusing how RATIOs are written?
I will say I think that use of a ratios had been used on foilzone but the correct use had been too! Bit confusing for some!
jakemoore wrote:Even more relevant is the chord wise position of the bridle inserts. I had a picture once on foil zone of a prototype kite. It had many bridle inserts along the chord. The designer optimized the inserts so the airfoil and camber change is optimized for the mixer.
There is more to this than matching a mixer to a kite. Mixers seem to work well with many bridle positions but the bridle positions themselves have a huge effect on the kite particularly like on the P4 where the A positions move forward on the tip areas to help allow the tips "collapse" into their C shape.
jakemoore wrote:People who are kite-experts have wind tunnels. Who knows what language they speak? They don't appear to share their secrets in the public domain.
People who are interested in aerodynamics have wind tunnels. Kite-experts spend a life time fiddling with kites like Peter Lynn did. People who call themselves kite-experts are pretentious twits. Aerodynamic experts are people that spend a lifetime fiddling with wind tunnels and the alike. Apparently you don't need to be a aerodynamic expert nor even grasp the basics if you want to design kites professionally,
,in fact I think it may even hinder your chances in getting the job!