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Kite size question

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Don Monnot
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Kite size question

Postby Don Monnot » Thu Jan 05, 2017 11:46 am

Sorry if this has been discussed to death somewhere on the forum, but I can't find an answer when I search.

It's been a while since I've used an open foil kite. I've got a 12m Flexifoil Sabre (2009 vintage) and would like to know the approx. equivalent size in LEI. Is a 12m foil kite about the same as a 15m LEI race kite or a 9m LEI race kite? What say you who really know?

Don

Regis-de-giens
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Style: 62 kg , light wind
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foil Ketos, Zone, OR mako, snowskis, kite-boat
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Re: Kite size question

Postby Regis-de-giens » Thu Jan 05, 2017 2:44 pm

Ok I start ... With a question first since the answer is unfortunatelly not so obvious ... : what is your support ? buggy / MTB on hard vs soft ground , ski / snowboard on hard snow or on deep powder ?
The way LEI delivers power against foil kite is different (force amplitude for start phase vs traction angle for speed as a "very" short explanation), so the power comparison will depend on the glide quality you have under your feet ...

Don Monnot
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Re: Kite size question

Postby Don Monnot » Thu Jan 05, 2017 3:11 pm

I usually ride either skis or a snowboard w/ Switchblade on thin snow cover over ice.

windrider1
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Re: Kite size question

Postby windrider1 » Thu Jan 05, 2017 4:42 pm

Regis has a point as far as far as the physics of the power delivery because they deliver their power a little different to each other but a foil kite will be more powerfull overall regardless usually 2 sizes up compared to an LEI. so a 12m foil will be like a 14m LEI.

Regis-de-giens
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Posts: 518
Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2014 2:58 pm
Kiting since: 2002
Local Beach: France: St Laurent du Var, Cannes, Almanarre
Style: 62 kg , light wind
Gear: Conceptair pulsion 15&12, Elf 11 &7, OR Flite 10m , Airush One 9&6, Rally 6&4.
foil Ketos, Zone, OR mako, snowskis, kite-boat
Brand Affiliation: None

Re: Kite size question

Postby Regis-de-giens » Thu Jan 05, 2017 4:56 pm

So quite a fast support with a medium "anti-drift support" which goes into the direction to feel that an equivalent LEI size will generate less speed and be more "tractor";

BUT ! I did not know the Sabre in particular before my above comment ; Now after looking at videos , it seems that its Aspect Ratio is particularly low compared to the current foilkites I know; So its L/D ratio should be quite close to an LEI , hence my first guess is that the power and speed will be quite similar to an LEI of the same size. To be completed with the opinion of other kiters knowing this Sabre in particular.

Regis-de-giens
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Local Beach: France: St Laurent du Var, Cannes, Almanarre
Style: 62 kg , light wind
Gear: Conceptair pulsion 15&12, Elf 11 &7, OR Flite 10m , Airush One 9&6, Rally 6&4.
foil Ketos, Zone, OR mako, snowskis, kite-boat
Brand Affiliation: None

Re: Kite size question

Postby Regis-de-giens » Thu Jan 05, 2017 5:12 pm

windrider1 wrote:Regis has a point as far as far as the physics of the power delivery because they deliver their power a little different to each other but a foil kite will be more powerfull overall regardless usually 2 sizes up compared to an LEI. so a 12m foil will be like a 14m LEI.
I agree with you for 80% of the configurations; but it can change in case of "bad gliding support" in my opinion ; in some cases like light wind with a big TT or snowkite with deep and sticky snow, planning is easier to catch with a LEI of the same size. For example with my huge spleen door on water, I had approximately the same planning limit of 9-10 knots with a 12m LEI (bandit Dos F-one) as my Flysurder Speed3 15m foilkite. It is a bit extrem I admit but I think a snowkiter can encounter this situation when climbing the slope with loops for example.

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Re: Kite size question

Postby Hardwater Kiter » Thu Jan 05, 2017 6:16 pm

Sabre 1 and 2 9m were both roughly the equivalent to a 14/15m LEI. They were essentially the same AR as the same year Ozone Frenzy.

Sabre 1 was either Red or Blue. Had an interesting bar/line set up which worked somewhat like a pulley bar but in a different configuration. Mad for pretty nice bar pressure and fast turn rate, even in the 12m.
Also used a Cobra cleat trim system which was awesome but chewed up trim lines like crazy.

Sabre 2 came in a couple of multi color colorways and had a more traditional bar set up. Had higher bar pressure and IMO was not nearly as nice to fly as the original.

Regis-de-giens
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Posts: 518
Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2014 2:58 pm
Kiting since: 2002
Local Beach: France: St Laurent du Var, Cannes, Almanarre
Style: 62 kg , light wind
Gear: Conceptair pulsion 15&12, Elf 11 &7, OR Flite 10m , Airush One 9&6, Rally 6&4.
foil Ketos, Zone, OR mako, snowskis, kite-boat
Brand Affiliation: None

Re: Kite size question

Postby Regis-de-giens » Fri Jan 06, 2017 3:07 pm

Hardwater Kiter wrote:Sabre 1 and 2 9m were both roughly the equivalent to a 14/15m LEI. They were essentially the same AR as the same year Ozone Frenzy.
Wahou !!! I am impressed ; thanks for the feedback from your experience with the Sabre, certainly more applicable in that case than my own experience on water with another foilkite design.


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