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Monofoil or "riding stabless", setup and riding

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revhed
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Re: Monofoil or "riding stabless", setup and riding

Postby revhed » Sat Dec 03, 2016 9:05 am

Rock on! :thumb: :D
Any chance you would be so kind as to share your latest best flying wing specs please?
R H

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Horst Sergio
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Re: Monofoil or "riding stabless", setup and riding

Postby Horst Sergio » Sat Dec 03, 2016 12:21 pm

revhed wrote:Rock on! :thumb: :D
Any chance you would be so kind as to share your latest best flying wing specs please?
R H
Hi revhed,

I am still riding my original Levitaz Element Wing.
https://levitaz.com/shop/components/frontwing-element/

Its specs are more or less all in cm:
Strut: 96 lenght x 10 chord x 1,3 thickness
Element Wing: 50 span x 16 chord x 1,4 thickness
with very low chamber still 8 cm chord at 2 cm distance from the tips
around 5 cm of anhedral and 4 cm swept back of the trailing edge
The surface is very rough (800-600 paper) for lowest minimum speed

The only thing I have done custom made is the fuselage. I first wanted to cut an old fuselage proto I got from them for that maneuver. But than decided to build it myself, also to show that there is a simple solution:

Get your self an "Inanimate steel rod" M16 x 260 of A4 stainless steel, like that one :D :

Image
DSC_2822.JPG
Put it into your turning machine, which is hopefully of a younger age than mine:
DSC_2414.JPG
combine it with a door stopper or similar
DSC_2422.JPG
and recieve your levitaz stabless set :D with an "Inanimate carbon rod" with 0,34 kg instead of the original fuselage with 0,90 kg
DSC_2416.JPG
:rollgrin:

Image


And be warned
A4 is a bitch when drilling with inappropriate tools, broke 3 drillers and 2 thread cutter, on the end cutting an original fuselage wouldn't cost so much more :oops:

@ronnie:
Yes if levitaz comes with a shorter alu strut, I will try that and also my longer one. But actually I think the 96 cm are just fine, not sure if shorter will improve stability and when doing 360 with more inclination I am already coming of the water as also a problem on normal foils. And somebody riding not just the small unicycles as I do but the extended versions told me, that stability can also profit from longer strut as curvature of the virtual ball you ballance on is smaller and therefore reaction time can be less. Also not sure if there would be a profit to ride the mono more flat like a windfoil. But something I am very sure about: Monofoil will never go speed as this is just about control and control is the biggest problem with a mono already at 25 km/h.

Mono is for freestyle, freemove:
has low to none problems with ventilation, can turn on a point and already tried mutant mode going backwards, but didn't get it yet :)
and maybe the mono can reach the highest angle against the wind as having very high performance on very small speeds: Updated the picture on the last side, so actually in not perfect conditions already at 38° against the wind and sure I can go closer than 35° in perfect conditions. :) And it is also easier to ride directly downwind if windspeed fits.


The new levitaz wing will have pretty much the as perfect expected shape and is not draggy as I had riding side by side with another guy who was nearly overpowered while I was with per kg more canopy just normal powered and I had difficulty to overtake him upwind with the Aspect wing. So all my hopes for mono are towards that wing. Also tried the one from airrush which has a pretty much swept back wings but was worse, but in theory yes, should be better especially with an offset.

Will keep you informed :)

Bernd
Last edited by Horst Sergio on Sun Dec 04, 2016 1:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Monofoil or "riding stabless", setup and riding

Postby ronnie » Sat Dec 03, 2016 4:22 pm

Horst Sergio wrote:
@ronnie:
Yes if levitaz comes with a shorter alu strut, I will try that and also my longer one. But actually I think the 96 cm are just fine, not sure if shorter will improve stability and when doing 360 with more inclination I am already coming of the water as also a problem on normal foils. And somebody riding not just the small unicycles as I do but the extended versions told me, that stability can also profit from longer strut as curvature of the virtual ball you ballance on is smaller and therefore reaction time can be less. Also not sure if there would be a profit to ride the mono more flat like a windfoil. But something I am very sure about: Monofoil will never go speed as this is just about control and control is the biggest problem with a mono already at 25 km/h.

Mono is for freestyle, freemove:
has low to none problems with ventilation, can turn on a point and already tried mutant mode going backwards, but didn't get it yet :)
and maybe the mono can reach the highest angle against the wind as having very high performance on very small speeds: Updated the picture on the last side, so actually in not perfect conditions already at 38° against the wind and sure I can go closer than 35° in perfect conditions. :) And it is also easier to ride directly downwind if windspeed fits.


The new levitaz wing will have pretty much the as perfect expected shape and is not draggy as I had riding side by side with another guy who was nearly overpowered while I was with per kg more canopy just normal powered and I had difficulty to overtake him upwind with the Aspect wing. So all my hopes for mono are towards that wing. Also tried the one from airrush which has a pretty much swept back wings but was worse, but in theory yes, should be better especially with an offset.

Will keep you informed :)

Bernd
Thanks Bernd - all very interesting! :thumb:

Because the windfoilers were tending on flat water to ride with the board only cm above the water when they were going fast (probably because they can touch down without crashing), I thought that with a short mast, the water resistance at speed would be reduced with a shorter mast. That's an interesting point about the longer mast giving a slower reaction time.

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Re: Monofoil or "riding stabless", setup and riding

Postby revhed » Sat Dec 03, 2016 8:22 pm

Thanks for specs. :thumb:
It seems like grey wing shown earlyer is much wider?
FKMONO.jpg
FKMONO.jpg (41.05 KiB) Viewed 986 times
I have had a feeling for years that a single wing can be made to fly well with a lot of R+D!
R H

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Horst Sergio
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Re: Monofoil or "riding stabless", setup and riding

Postby Horst Sergio » Sun Dec 04, 2016 1:09 pm

Hello revhed,

yes that grey wing was much wider and more AR, but didn't work well, as I think due to short chord line. It just worked a bit, as it was additionally very early lifting at around 17 km/h where reaction time still exceeded the higher demand of reaction due to higher instability.

Your picture looks interesting, :thumb:
have you tried it, how does it work?
are those yellow fin-tips made to try different tip angles?

@ronnie
Yes maybe a similar to windfoil setup with a extra short ca. 30 cm fuselage where the nose of the board is always slightly touching to control high, as seen on the foil ski video from aeroandi could work in super flat offshore water. But on the end as I think speed is not so much about low resistance, but more about survive :wink: , so also in this setup you are never allowed to come backwards of wing pressure point, otherwise you would crash anyway how short the strut is, as also seen on andis video.

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Horst Sergio
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Re: Monofoil or "riding stabless", setup and riding

Postby Horst Sergio » Sun Jan 01, 2017 6:47 pm

Latest experiences with a simple proto to go towards the ultimate travel foil:

Even in very light wind it is possible to get going with a very small board.

I was out with my actual "Micro-pocket-Mono-foil" with 94 x 38 cm directly before and after I was on my big normal volume foil with 135 cm. It doesn't felt that I would need much more wind to get going with the Micro, but a loop or two to start with 24 m lines and my 9 m² for sure. Nearly the opposite: When getting back on the normal foil with the two wings it felt like jammed. But for sure the big 135 cm volume board in combination with the short 96 cm strut and the Mono would actually be the best setup for the absolute low end. And even if the Micro has the same weight of 3,7 kg with straps as the volume board, the micro is more difficult to change foot position when jibing in flight, as you can feel significantly its lower moment of inertia, which is great for maneuver, but difficult for foot change.

But I think for a travel foil I would use a split board with a adaptable nose (as not necessary to say: touchdown with a bit of forward speed is not possible with such a small board, either you sink or you foil, nothing in between :-? )
and also a normal two wings foil for better wind range and all around usage. But the mono micro pocket is great for freestyle and feels like a park skateboard: Just a little push on the back feet and it does a super fast backflip ... if you are lucky, together with you and not just for it self. :wink: :D But could also imagine one day a guy will come how just flips the board lands and goes on riding, as some unicyclist already do.

Check 1:42 and 3:48 :o :rollgrin:
https://vimeo.com/185539385

Very cool to see also in light wind how small a setup can be.
Micro-Pocket.jpg

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Horst Sergio
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Re: Monofoil or "riding stabless", setup and riding

Postby Horst Sergio » Thu Mar 30, 2017 10:44 pm

here is another one been found on http://kitefoil.forumactif.org/t4619-monoaile-en-v

Image

Anyone form France may say something about it?

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Re: Monofoil or "riding stabless", setup and riding

Postby Peter_Frank » Fri Mar 31, 2017 12:36 am

Interesting!
The swept back "V" wing will work and can be very pitch stable, but the mast is way to far forward which will give really bad turning dynamics I would think :roll:

8) PF

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Re: Monofoil or "riding stabless", setup and riding

Postby jaros » Fri Mar 31, 2017 7:35 am

Interesting!
The swept back "V" wing will work and can be very pitch stable, but the mast is way to far forward which will give really bad turning dynamics I would think
PF
Where should the mast be than? I am planning to build something similar, lower AR, more delta. You seem to know what you are talking about, so what would be your recommendations, please? I am looking at RC flying wing plans, am I wrong if i am guessing the mast center should be around "center of gravity" for planes?
Any other suggestions, anyone?
Thank you all!
Jaros

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Re: Monofoil or "riding stabless", setup and riding

Postby Peter_Frank » Fri Mar 31, 2017 10:27 am

The mast has to be somewhat behind the COE (the same as the COG when in balance) I would say, meaning on the shown V it is not easily possible as it has to be behind where it is now, so you have to make a fuselage and put the wing forward of the mast.

Not as clean as it could be...

Just like Horst's with the tail removed - the wing "sticks out" in front on the fuselage.

8) PF


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