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Is Shinn going to produce his own foil?

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TomW
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Re: Is Shinn going to produce his own foil?

Postby TomW » Wed Jul 12, 2017 6:16 pm

Looks like a great product and it would be on top of my list if I was buying this year. I bought last year. The Jackson in particular looks like a fantastic board.
I'll look forward to a Jackson V2:
I like the mast plate tracks and one rear strap position. moving the foil makes mores sense than moving rear strap and allows use of various foils from other brands.
Please keep center strap option, there's too many boards with only 3 strap option.
I suggest you offer foothooks option instead of straps. I would pay extra for them.
I know you will try to reduce weight. How about some channels, shape at nose, to add structural stiffness?

aleks
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Re: Is Shinn going to produce his own foil?

Postby aleks » Wed Jul 12, 2017 6:49 pm

Multiple positions for rear strap is not only about moving it against the foil. For me it is mostly for adjustment of your stance width. Everyone has a preferred stance, would be nice to be able to fine tune straps for it. You can do it with front straps too, but it requires more inserts there (usually 5 against 2, or in Shinn Jackson case 3 against 2).

The main reason I din't buy Nobile Skim foil board is because it has zero adjustment - one set of inserts for front and back straps, and a single foil position. Not sure if they are trying to save on production cost or something :roll:. Vote with you money :D !

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Re: Is Shinn going to produce his own foil?

Postby hshim007 » Wed Jul 12, 2017 6:51 pm

Shinnworld2 wrote:
Wed Jul 12, 2017 11:59 am
Hi Aleks,
A couple of points to note from my perspective as the board developer.

The first weight of board I gave you was before production started and before the final pad arrived. Now you know why most brands don't publish the weight of the products..... we produce on site in our HQ and our lead time is very short meaning we can and do tweak designs right up to the last moment to try to improve things.

Jackson is a completely new way to look at an ABS technology foil board.... last year i was trying too make the boards stiffer with materials and the weight increased more and more with very un-satisfactory results. Jackson was a return to the drawing board to find a way to increase the stiffness without resorting to simply Moore glass and carbon. The raised rails serve 2 purposes.... one to avoid catching and secondly to increase stiffness.... In your post you mention the constant thickness of the rail on the board - this is not an accident there are 2 reasons. Firstly you noticed how well the Jackson avoids nose diving..... well that is in large part due to the stiffness of the nose.... making the nose thinner makes it more flexible and when you nose dive the nose flexes and creates drag..... a stiffer nose is better (trust me I drank 100l litres of sea water testing this board). The second reason is a technology reason, you can not compare the way this board is made to the Cabrinha or a normal ABS board, I'm not going to say more as we invested a lot in this technology but I can assure you there is a reason.
There is one thing I am 110% certain of in a foil board....it's better to have a few grammes more and great stiffness than to make the lightest board that flexes. If Jackson weighs the same as your last board but you comment you don't feel it when riding and you do notice the performance improvements then that is a good thing no?

Strap positions.... once again there is a reason for everything
Single back strap position.... with the front straps you have the chance to regulate your stance width. Why would you need to move the position of your back foot? On a regular board you move your back foot in relation to the fin position to achieve the feel and performance you want. ON Jackson you have the possibility to regulate the foil position infinitely..... why would you want a "macro" 2cm adjustment of a 2nd strap position when you have better adjustment with the tracks?
The track nuts are flush with the pad surface, Blazej and I have tens and possibly even hundreds of hours riding this set up in bare feet without problem or complaints..... in fact I only ever ride bare foot and I never had an issue with it, I certainly never felt the track underfoot when riding let alone had discomfort with it.
The front straps position....Jackson is set for one or 2 front straps. If you want to use 2 front straps you will find a spare screw in the kit that is longer and allows you to fix both strap ends together into one insert. Why? Balance and stability. The more over the centre line of the board you stand the more stable you are especially when carving and foot switching. Using 2 inserts means moving them around 5cm apart to have space to screw them in and this takes you off the centre line of the board something I find noticeably less stable.
The front straps are at a higher angle than last years boards not the same as last years. I am not a fan of a higher angle.
Out of interest, have you measured every other board on the market? I have measured a lot of them and I can assure you we are not the most parallel by far!

I did smile at your last comment "the ideal board is not that hard to make"..... as a designer and leader of a team of 5 people that helped develop and test Jackson I would disagree with you not least because the "ideal board" is such a personal thing.
Blazej is riding the 120 Jackson for freeride use and has not asked for any changes at all.....and as my main foil rider i will make him what he wants (within reason!!).

Having said all that I agree, Jackson is not the PERFECT board.....if it were I would stop working now and retire, I certainly would not waste my time trying to make a Jackson V2 if it were an impossible task. There is ALWAYS room for improvement in every product and all feedback is positive feedback and I take it into account for the future.

With regards changing your board..... you would need to go back to the dealer you bought it with and discuss the matter with them, I'm afraid there is not a lot I can do to bypass the chain here.....

Thanks again fro the feedback, I hope my commments open your ideas a little to my design thoughts sorry if this reply has become a little longer than I wanted!
Mark,

Awesome that you pay attention to the comments of your clients. If I could chime in, what I would love to see is a more freestyle strapless oriented board. You being an amazing strapless rider I'm sure you can appreciate this. A layup like the Jackson but strapless and 108 to 110 max would be awesome. It would be even more travel friendly. Zeeko has the mini pocket but I'm not sure I like the layup from the look of it. The layup of the Jackson looks awesome. Currently I'm riding a chopped Paipo and reasonably happy with it but would love to see a dedicated short board layup very much like the Jackson. Cheers H

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Starsky
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Re: Is Shinn going to produce his own foil?

Postby Starsky » Wed Jul 12, 2017 7:01 pm

El stubo

Shinnworld2
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Re: Is Shinn going to produce his own foil?

Postby Shinnworld2 » Thu Jul 13, 2017 11:22 am

Do you mean a board for with or without the foil?
I think Jackson 120 is about as small as I like to go and still ride through touchdowns. I made some 90cm boards but they are pretty much instant swim if you make a mistake.
Personally I love the 120 Jackson for strapless foiling....it feels very "throw around" able and yet still offers a degree of usability.

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Re: Is Shinn going to produce his own foil?

Postby emmandkev » Fri Aug 18, 2017 8:28 pm

Question - I've been kiting since 2002, but this is going to be my first foray in to flying. Which board have people gone with the 145 or 120?

TomW
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Re: Is Shinn going to produce his own foil?

Postby TomW » Fri Aug 18, 2017 8:38 pm

I'm fairly noob, 20 sessions. I'd go for the 145. You need the margins fir a lot of surface riding and touchdowns.

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Re: Is Shinn going to produce his own foil?

Postby bob10 » Sat Aug 19, 2017 11:35 am

145 if your learning for sure.

I tried the 120 when i was learning, as that was sat on the beach and it was just god dam frustrating... The 145 was soo much better. I'm now 6 months into foiling and i still dont want the 120. I hate swimming. ha

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Peter_Frank
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Re: Is Shinn going to produce his own foil?

Postby Peter_Frank » Sat Aug 19, 2017 12:27 pm

Yes go for the 145 no doubt.

Even later when experienced and you might ride mainly on a 120, you will need the 145 for lighter winds :thumb:

8) PF

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Re: Is Shinn going to produce his own foil?

Postby zeroowl » Sat Aug 19, 2017 2:46 pm

Waiting for my Jackson 120 + Model P to arrive next week ;-)
I choose 120 mainly for travel reason, as I travel a lot.
Tried few times 120cm board from Levitaz, was more than enough.so hope it will be perfect.
will share my experience.


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