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2018 North Rebel vs 2017 North Evo Review

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dracop
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2018 North Rebel vs 2017 North Evo Review

Postby dracop » Thu Aug 24, 2017 9:49 pm

Special thanks to Dan for helping me source a 12m 2018 Rebel. I already have a 12m 2017 Evo so I am comparing the two.

Let me know anything you guys would like to know in terms of comparing the two kites. First, they are similar, both are great kites. The Rebel is a higher AR version of the evo and sits farther to the edge of the window. The kites are interchangeable to a latge extent imo (60% overlap I would say).

Preliminary thoughts after a few sessions on 2018 Rebel (and dozens of sessions on Evo):

- the Evo sits deeper in the window, quicker response
- the Evo lets you edge harder, the Rebel does not like a hard edge even when overpowered.
- the Evo likes to be sheeted in more whereas the Rebel flies best with a fair amount of trim left
- the Rebel boosts stronger and has better hang time. Jumping with the Rebel is more about kite power whereas the Evo likes a boost after soing a load/pop.
- the Rebel has a very smooth kiteloop with even power throughout the loop and does not yank you hard
- the Rebel lacks plastic battens
- the Rebel has struts evenly placed whereas Evo has that reiforced wingtip with an open central canopy

The Rebel CANNOT be set to a pivot style turn like the Evo on Soft mode can. It will always be a full turn even if tight.

Overall the Evo is more wakestyle friendly whereas the Rebel is an old school machine. More to come!
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Re: 2018 North Rebel vs 2017 North Evo Review

Postby mkNY » Thu Aug 24, 2017 11:47 pm

Any difference in the tip settings for the Rebel?

Also in what conditions did you fly the kites so far, over/underpowered and how do they behave a across their wind range.

I find my smaller EVOs (9M) really come alive towards the upper end while keeping relatively low bar pressure. My 12M gets a bit more heavy bar wise in the upper range. Also since the EVO sits deeper in the window I find myself sometimes struggling to hold an edge to pop when truly overpowered and not get the best possible boost. Would you say the Rebel would be easier in that regard?

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Re: 2018 North Rebel vs 2017 North Evo Review

Postby geron » Thu Aug 24, 2017 11:53 pm

I have the 9 &13 2016 Evos and tried the Rebel 10 2018; your point of view is interesting about edging and window, I felt the same difference but expressed it in another way: to me, "the Rebel had more range" (I could use it in lighter wind and was able to go upwind easier)(also in harder wind was easier), "turned very smoothly and in control" and "the bar pressure had no yanks". Also it was easier to jump higher. I also liked that it didn't have battens.

I would like to know the relaunch in light air and waves?, weight? (if you can), range? (which one has more to you?)

Can you explain the pivot style turn?

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Re: 2018 North Rebel vs 2017 North Evo Review

Postby Puetz » Fri Aug 25, 2017 2:29 am

... +1 on dracop's opinions!

just to add a little more:

I own a 14m 2017 Evo and I got to test the 14m 2018 Rebel. I was mostly on a directional board (Nugget 5'5") throughout my testing using 3 different bars to, the new 24m 4 line bar, a Click bar in 4 then 5 line mode and a normal 5 line bar 24m.

I found the Evo has more drift, not Neo, wave kite level of drift but waaaaay better than the Rebel. Every time I tried to let the Rebel drift it would fall back pretty fast so you really need to concentrate, no set and forget. On the Rebel, if you want to ride waves/swell, you either need to be well powered or actively fly the Rebel to stop it from stalling or backing down, even gybing towards the kite too fast and it felt like stalling. Evo doesn't back down nearly as much and makes it fun almost encouraging you to surf the waves despite it not being a wave kite. You still need to keep the Evo, of course actively flying it but no where near as active as the Rebel.

Looping was way better on the Evo too. I found you can easily control what sort of loop you want from the Evo by the amount of steering input, where as the Rebel looped the same despite either lots or not as much bar input, the Rebel loops are bigger and more grunty and too slow when your playing in waves. You can get those bigger grunty loop out of the Evo too which feels the same but then next one you might want tight and pivot on wingtip style and the Evo can achieve this with appropriate bar input but not so easily on the Rebel.

As a side note, I found the Rebel quite a pain to relaunch when using the 4 line bar in light winds. It took an old school trick of swimming towards the kite to relaunch the kite in the lighter winds. Waaaay easier with the 5 line bar. Rebel relaunched fine when the wind was higher so something to keep in mind when you riding the Rebel in its bottom end.

Cheers,

Robbie :D

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Re: 2018 North Rebel vs 2017 North Evo Review

Postby lindseym » Fri Aug 25, 2017 2:52 pm

dracop wrote:
Thu Aug 24, 2017 9:49 pm

- the Rebel boosts stronger and has better hang time. Jumping with the Rebel is more about kite power whereas the Evo likes a boost after soing a load/pop.
- the Rebel has a very smooth kiteloop with even power throughout the loop and does not yank you hard
- the Rebel lacks plastic battens
- the Rebel has struts evenly placed whereas Evo has that reiforced wingtip with an open central canopy

The Rebel CANNOT be set to a pivot style turn like the Evo on Soft mode can. It will always be a full turn even if tight.

Overall the Evo is more wakestyle friendly whereas the Rebel is an old school machine. More to come!
This is a great review. North does nothing half way and I'm confident that this new Rebel will be every bit as good as previous models. Beyond the characteristics you mentioned above, I had a few questions:
- From your experience riding the new Rebel, is there anything dramatically different in how it feels ? So for example, if you were blindfolded and tried the 2017 Rebel and 2018 Rebel would you be able to tell the difference? This of course assumes you have tried old Rebels.
- Does this new Rebel still have that short depower stroke? This is something I really like.

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Re: 2018 North Rebel vs 2017 North Evo Review

Postby dracop » Mon Aug 28, 2017 1:42 am

mkNY wrote:
Thu Aug 24, 2017 11:47 pm
Any difference in the tip settings for the Rebel?

Also in what conditions did you fly the kites so far, over/underpowered and how do they behave a across their wind range.

I find my smaller EVOs (9M) really come alive towards the upper end while keeping relatively low bar pressure. My 12M gets a bit more heavy bar wise in the upper range. Also since the EVO sits deeper in the window I find myself sometimes struggling to hold an edge to pop when truly overpowered and not get the best possible boost. Would you say the Rebel would be easier in that regard?
I have flown the Evo in all conditions. The Rebel I have flown on a light day (for my weight) and on a couple of strong days (overpowered). Note that I weigh 250 and like big air: light for me on a 12m is 20mph and strong is 30mph.

I always hold an edge on the Evo even when wildly overpowered. The Open C DNA of the kite comes out when you use an edge to load or manage power. I fly C kites alot and the Evo reacts well to using the board to manage power. The bridle does not interfere much (surprisingly). I dig the back corner if the board in when riding like this (think a Naish Monarch board) and the kite likes it. I agree the 12m feels heavier in my hand than the smaller siZes in 6m and 8m. The 10m is middle of the road on this issue.

The Rebel does not like edging hard, it wants a lighter edge (just point upwind on a light edge and it will take you there). It hates it when I dig the back corner in and I am forced to keep an even edge along the rail. The kite has very soft bar pressure overall so even when overpowered it remains controllable.

Both are well behaved in both light and overpowered conditions. The Rebel has a tendency to backstall if you try to load too much on it. Overall it just does not like aggressive loading on the Revel. So long as you trim it out alot it flys butter smooth. The Evo likes to be powered up more and responds to loading much better. You can get bigger jumps on the Rebel due to raw kite power. I can tell because when I jump going with the current its harder on the Evo which needs loading whereas the Rebel could care less, the kite does all the work.

The Rebel uses the Adaptive Tip attachment whereas the Evo has a direct line attaching to the wingtip. Completely different. That adaptive tip ensures the kite will never Pivot turn like the Evo (unless you break it and fly it direct connect).
Last edited by dracop on Mon Aug 28, 2017 2:18 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 2018 North Rebel vs 2017 North Evo Review

Postby dracop » Mon Aug 28, 2017 1:46 am

lindseym wrote:
Fri Aug 25, 2017 2:52 pm
dracop wrote:
Thu Aug 24, 2017 9:49 pm

- the Rebel boosts stronger and has better hang time. Jumping with the Rebel is more about kite power whereas the Evo likes a boost after soing a load/pop.
- the Rebel has a very smooth kiteloop with even power throughout the loop and does not yank you hard
- the Rebel lacks plastic battens
- the Rebel has struts evenly placed whereas Evo has that reiforced wingtip with an open central canopy

The Rebel CANNOT be set to a pivot style turn like the Evo on Soft mode can. It will always be a full turn even if tight.

Overall the Evo is more wakestyle friendly whereas the Rebel is an old school machine. More to come!
This is a great review. North does nothing half way and I'm confident that this new Rebel will be every bit as good as previous models. Beyond the characteristics you mentioned above, I had a few questions:
- From your experience riding the new Rebel, is there anything dramatically different in how it feels ? So for example, if you were blindfolded and tried the 2017 Rebel and 2018 Rebel would you be able to tell the difference? This of course assumes you have tried old Rebels.
- Does this new Rebel still have that short depower stroke? This is something I really like.
I have not spent time on a 2017 Rebel so hard to compare. I thought the short depower stroke involved the fifth line. Keep in mind the Fifth line is unloaded so its only there for safety release now. Mind you, you could reload the fifth by shortening the fifth line or by adding extensions to the other four lines. I could try that approach if u guys really want to inow, sounds like it was an important Rebel feature.
Last edited by dracop on Mon Aug 28, 2017 2:19 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 2018 North Rebel vs 2017 North Evo Review

Postby dracop » Mon Aug 28, 2017 2:06 am

geron wrote:
Thu Aug 24, 2017 11:53 pm
I have the 9 &13 2016 Evos and tried the Rebel 10 2018; your point of view is interesting about edging and window, I felt the same difference but expressed it in another way: to me, "the Rebel had more range" (I could use it in lighter wind and was able to go upwind easier)(also in harder wind was easier), "turned very smoothly and in control" and "the bar pressure had no yanks". Also it was easier to jump higher. I also liked that it didn't have battens.

I would like to know the relaunch in light air and waves?, weight? (if you can), range? (which one has more to you?)

Can you explain the pivot style turn?
I am a bad person to review relaunch as I have supernatural abilities when it comes to relaunching kites in light and fluky wind. I started kiting on a 16m in Miami years ago and relaunching any kite just comes easy to me years later.

Both Evo and Rebel have huge range. They accomplish it differently tho and it affects flight characteristics. The Revel is very easy to fly so long as you dont try to power it up or consume the power too quickly (will backstall). The Evo sits deeper in the window and closer to the powerzone. I think the Rebel has abit more wind range courtesy of is higher aspect ratio.

If you change the wingtip line attachment on an evo to Soft setting, the kite can turn in place on a dime. This makes it quick to change direction and redirect the kite. A full turn is the opposite - generates more power but the kite has to do anfull rounded turn to turn around, making it much slower to turn. Big kites tend to be slower especially in light wind. With a big Evo, the kite will turn fast on Soft mode due to that pivot turn. Creating an interesting situation where the kite maybe a lumbering beast but you can redirect easily and quickly. That super quick turn also kills the power generated during the turn, making it gutless and forgiving. Perfect for my beginner students who WILL make mistakes.

For directional riding in waves go Neo, then Dice, then Evo. Avoid the Rebel.

For Old School tricks go Rebel. Old school freeride is really the only sector the Rebel has over the Evo imo. It is what most twin tip riders do though.

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Re: 2018 North Rebel vs 2017 North Evo Review

Postby Teabageppo » Mon Aug 28, 2017 6:11 am

"The Revel is very easy to fly so long as you dont try to power it up or consume the power too quickly (will backstall).."


nope, you would struggle to backstall the 2017 rebel, it can take load just like the evo...it's not that high aspect (say compared to an edge) and the 2017 was the highest aspect of all the years. But I can load and pop it just as much as the 2016 evo.

Agreed, only advantage is old school board off with the rebel over the evo ...and of course its greater wind range. Evo needs a bit more wind over it to come alive and no kite holds itself better at max or beyond than the rebel...no kite.

But the other is the "feel' of the rebel, very direct, no bridals, no pulleys, loaded fifth...but this may have all changed it seems.

and Dracop...... "you, you could reload the fifth by shortening the fifth line or by adding extensions to the other four lines. I could try that approach if u guys really want to inow, sounds like it was an important Rebel feature"...

You cannot just load up the fifth on a 4 line, bridalled pulleyed kite to see how it feels, because it sounds like it was an important rebel feature"????

Sounds like to me you have no idea at all about the rebel nor loaded fifths, hence I also doubt your ability to compare kites...to be completely frank.

But the input is great though, the more the merrier.

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Re: 2018 North Rebel vs 2017 North Evo Review

Postby dracop » Tue Aug 29, 2017 7:22 pm

Teabageppo wrote:
Mon Aug 28, 2017 6:11 am
"The Revel is very easy to fly so long as you dont try to power it up or consume the power too quickly (will backstall).."


nope, you would struggle to backstall the 2017 rebel, it can take load just like the evo...it's not that high aspect (say compared to an edge) and the 2017 was the highest aspect of all the years. But I can load and pop it just as much as the 2016 evo.

Agreed, only advantage is old school board off with the rebel over the evo ...and of course its greater wind range. Evo needs a bit more wind over it to come alive and no kite holds itself better at max or beyond than the rebel...no kite.

But the other is the "feel' of the rebel, very direct, no bridals, no pulleys, loaded fifth...but this may have all changed it seems.

and Dracop...... "you, you could reload the fifth by shortening the fifth line or by adding extensions to the other four lines. I could try that approach if u guys really want to inow, sounds like it was an important Rebel feature"...

You cannot just load up the fifth on a 4 line, bridalled pulleyed kite to see how it feels, because it sounds like it was an important rebel feature"????

Sounds like to me you have no idea at all about the rebel nor loaded fifths, hence I also doubt your ability to compare kites...to be completely frank.

But the input is great though, the more the merrier.
Flying the 4 line 2018 Rebel, it does NOT like taking load. Everyone on my beach agrees with me on that. The review did not address 2017 Rebels. A 2017 EVO takes load a million times better than a 2018 Rebel. Try one out and you will discover the truth of it.

I am not familiar with the 2017 Rebel and this review was to judge the 2018 Rebel vs the 2017 EVO. Since North is going to be changing the EVO so drastically, it brings up the question of whether the 2018 Rebel is a replacement for the Evo.

As far as loading up the 5th, you can add tension to the fifth line- how a kite spreading load through a bridled system on The two front lines will react vs a direct connection on the two front lines in addition to the fifth, is certainly a great question. Can you still accomplish the short depower stroke with "light tension on the fifth" per the product clip or is the characterstic simply gone is the question?

Using stock settings, I think its gone.

Finally, please take your bad attitude back to your Aussie forum where bad attitudes are better accepted. There are alot of questions about the 2018 Rebel given the major changes (5 line to 4 with a bridle is Very different) and the changes this means for The North product platform since it looks like they will redesign the Evo).

This post is from an Evo user who teaches daily on evos (and rides C kites for personal riding) comparing the new 2018 Rebel to an 2017 Evo. If you want it compared to a 2017 Rebel, you need find a different review unless I can get my hands on a 2017 or older Rebel.

As far as loaded fifths, I will forever be a fan of the semi-loaded fifth line I use on my Torches; for all their weirdness I like the effects. Can it be used with bridled front lines? Interesting question altho it will require more than "light tension" on the fifth to overpower the effects of the bridling.

Change is upon you whether you like it or not, from North not from dracop, I am simply here looking at the new product and seeing where it fits. So please take the atittude back to your backwater where it belongs.


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