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Is it possible to kite a surf-foil?

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Jzh_perth
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Re: Is it possible to kite a surf-foil?

Postby Jzh_perth » Wed Aug 30, 2017 7:51 am

Awesome. I think the Takuma weights 5.7kg - I'm sure I saw a pic of it on scales on this forum somewhere. My alloy zeekos are 4.1kg by comparison.

"Open design" hey ...

Jzh_perth
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Re: Is it possible to kite a surf-foil?

Postby Jzh_perth » Fri Sep 01, 2017 11:29 am

Right. I've borrowed a Takuma for the weekend w 70cm mast. Here is a comparison next to a standard zeeko Green and white. It's huge and heavy - very interested to see how it goes. I'm heading a a sandy bottom wave spot Saturday afternoon near Lancelin


IMG_2159.JPG
IMG_2160.JPG

Jzh_perth
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Re: Is it possible to kite a surf-foil?

Postby Jzh_perth » Mon Sep 04, 2017 3:32 pm

Hi. So I had a pretty decent session last sat on the Takuma. It's super slow - max was 21kmh and avg was 12 but heaps of fun. I'm going to order the Chinese version as $1400 USD is too much for me. Anyway, I made up this short clip so you can see. I'm on a 9 Boost2 and my buddy is on a 5M. We are using like 30 m lines and it's probably 12-15 kts. I tried a 5 at first and could foil upwind (says no one ever) - the Takuma doesn't make much apparent so I had to come in and change up.

https://vimeo.com/232342993

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liv2surf
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Re: Is it possible to kite a surf-foil?

Postby liv2surf » Tue Sep 05, 2017 12:52 am

Jzh_perth wrote:
Tue Aug 29, 2017 2:52 pm
Hi. Just found this thread and glad someone has taken the plunge with this Chinese Takuma. I have currently listed my Spitfire zeeko for sale and as soon as it's gone I'm going to order one of these Chinese foils from the same supplier. I emailed them yesterday via the Alibaba app - raphael at sublimationsports.com got straight back to me. The ways it works is you buy 1 as a sample for $438 plus shipping, and then if you buy more you get $100 refunded off the total order.

So how is the quality - you seem happy with it. The rear wing - does it have the same spacer / riser as the original ? I'd say not based on your first pic but I guess it still works just fine.

I'm hoping to use this as a wave foil for myself, and as a teaching foil for students. Probably going with the 76cm mast ( he offered me 60cm, 76cm or 91cm and I am undecided. Always ridden full length masts myself.
Interesting that you are wanting to switch from Zeeko Spitfire Canard style to this Takuma SUP/surf style foil (and, more importantly, that you have tried both. I think Gunnar has also tried both). I have read raves of both foils for kiting waves and am trying to reconcile the two threads and the two foils. Could you compare them and mention your preference since you have tried both. For now, I want to ride small (0.5-1m) and medium (up to ~2m) waves on a foil with a kite in side-on wind. I am currently on my first foil (Liquid Force Foil fish).

Jzh_perth
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Re: Is it possible to kite a surf-foil?

Postby Jzh_perth » Tue Sep 05, 2017 2:18 am

Hi Liv2Surf,

I am a kiteshop and currently resell Zeeko. I personally ownthe Spitfire, Green and White and soon a China Takuma. The spitfire is a fantastic foil - I rode it all last summer. The canard design works well and really gives the back foot much more input to the handling. My analogy would be regular foil is front foot biased like a snowboard, canard is back foot driven like surfboard)

My experience was that the Spitfire wants to be ridden with a fair amount of speed and is perhaps more suited to aggressive carving in and amongst the waves (Nico said as much). What I am trying to do is foil-surf some unbroken swells like the Laird Hamilton (hahah) Kai lenny videos and float down the line. It's a different style of riding.

I've been chatting a lot with Gunnar and he suggested the Surf /SUP foils have been working for him. I am fortunate that I am able to try so many different designs, and happy to share any insights along the way.

As you can tell I'm not a brilliant rider (like Gunnar or Nico), been on the foil for 2 years and basically can ride heel and toeside and make all my carving turns which works for me.

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liv2surf
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Re: Is it possible to kite a surf-foil?

Postby liv2surf » Tue Sep 05, 2017 2:56 am

Jzh_perth wrote:
Tue Sep 05, 2017 2:18 am
Hi Liv2Surf,

I am a kiteshop and currently resell Zeeko. I personally ownthe Spitfire, Green and White and soon a China Takuma. The spitfire is a fantastic foil - I rode it all last summer. The canard design works well and really gives the back foot much more input to the handling. My analogy would be regular foil is front foot biased like a snowboard, canard is back foot driven like surfboard)

My experience was that the Spitfire wants to be ridden with a fair amount of speed and is perhaps more suited to aggressive carving in and amongst the waves (Nico said as much). What I am trying to do is foil-surf some unbroken swells like the Laird Hamilton (hahah) Kai lenny videos and float down the line. It's a different style of riding.

I've been chatting a lot with Gunnar and he suggested the Surf /SUP foils have been working for him. I am fortunate that I am able to try so many different designs, and happy to share any insights along the way.

As you can tell I'm not a brilliant rider (like Gunnar or Nico), been on the foil for 2 years and basically can ride heel and toeside and make all my carving turns which works for me.
Thanks Jzh_perth,
Thank you for your comparison of the foils. I also am trying to foil on the face of unbroken waves (even though my foiling skills are beginner intermediate - been at it ~15 months). Your comments makes me wonder if there could be something in between the aforementioned takuma and canard styles, to retain the back foot style, while slowing down the canard style (or speeding up and adding back foot to the takuma)? ..... but answering that is so far beyond me for multiple reasons. I think I will also get a takuma style (because I want to stay on the wave face). But, I still come back to wondering if there is anything in between the two?
Good wind and waves,
liv2surf

Jzh_perth
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Re: Is it possible to kite a surf-foil?

Postby Jzh_perth » Tue Sep 05, 2017 4:27 am

You could also consider the XLW wings for the Zeeko. That would certainly give you more lift at slower speeds. Best of both worlds ?

I've not ridden them however.

juandesooka
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Re: Is it possible to kite a surf-foil?

Postby juandesooka » Tue Sep 05, 2017 4:58 am

I think you are on the right track liv2surf.

No surf or sup foils have yet embraced canard concept but it seems a good fit. More lift for a given wing size (need smaller wings). Rear foit focus. Tendency to drop down when front wing breaches.

The takuma seems great for sup but very slow for kite. The spitfire XLW is a step in right direction but still seems small.

So. ...either someone introduces the middle ground or it's time to MacGyver a diy Franken duck! I am on it. :-)!

ronnie
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Re: Is it possible to kite a surf-foil?

Postby ronnie » Tue Sep 05, 2017 10:17 am

juandesooka wrote:
Tue Sep 05, 2017 4:58 am
I think you are on the right track liv2surf.

No surf or sup foils have yet embraced canard concept but it seems a good fit. More lift for a given wing size (need smaller wings). Rear foit focus. Tendency to drop down when front wing breaches.

The takuma seems great for sup but very slow for kite. The spitfire XLW is a step in right direction but still seems small.

So. ...either someone introduces the middle ground or it's time to MacGyver a diy Franken duck! I am on it. :-)!
There is at least one very lightweight surf/SUP foil expert (13 year old Finn Spencer @ just over 50 lbs). He has just recently started to learn to kitesurf. He might be able to use the XLW canard foil to catch waves and see how it performs? It's not designed for the purpose, but maybe it will work?

juandesooka
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Re: Is it possible to kite a surf-foil?

Postby juandesooka » Tue Sep 05, 2017 5:34 pm

ronnie wrote:
Tue Sep 05, 2017 10:17 am
There is at least one very lightweight surf/SUP foil expert (13 year old Finn Spencer @ just over 50 lbs). He has just recently started to learn to kitesurf. He might be able to use the XLW canard foil to catch waves and see how it performs? It's not designed for the purpose, but maybe it will work?
That would be interesting to see!

I have yet to find any info about canards and sup foils -- what I want to know is if there's some design or performance reason they aren't being used, or simply that no one's yet tried.

A friend and I are going to do some experimenting this fall with DIY wings, see if we can set up a cheap working SUP foil. This will start with experiments in the wake behind the boat, then into surf later. First will try just using larger lower aspect kite wings. Then the same wings but in canard set up (as they should give significantly more lift reversed). Then make some bigger wings, out of g10 and out of wood/fibreglass/carbon. Hack around and see what works. Or maybe I'll come into some play money and buy one of the chinese knock off's. :D


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