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Best bankrupt?

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Matteo V
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Re: Best bankrupt?

Postby Matteo V » Sat Sep 30, 2017 5:11 pm

Toby wrote:
Sat Sep 30, 2017 1:39 pm
As I mentioned before, Naish developed the Sigma shape to go around the bow patent.
Pretty much all "odd" and/or "extinct" shapes are products of trying to get around the Legaignoux brothers patent. Just look at Peter Stiewe' patent that Windchaser put a link to. The read in the description is amazing. I don't buy any of it. And I can't believe that anyone would think that this concept would work. Maybe Eleveight kites will have this shape???? Are they licensed to produce the Bow kite???? Again, you should read the description of this "innovation". It is worth it.

http://patentimages.storage.googleapis. ... 844875.pdf

Flyboy wrote:
Thu Sep 28, 2017 10:13 pm
I'm sorry: are you saying that Best purchased the rights to the patent (& patent royalties) from Bruno? How long did Bruno's patent run & which companies actually paid royalties? I know ... it's a complicated history much discussed in the past, but is there any clear information on this?
The story that fits is that the Legaignoux brothers wanted nothing to do with being a kiteboarding manufacture. They just wanted to license others to produce, sell, and have the liability associated with kiteboarding. The Legaignoux brothers wanted nothing to do with running a company. They just wanted their reward for their R&D without any further hassles. This was a fight at first with all of the "big names" we know about ripping off or skirting around the Legaignoux brothers patents. Later the Legaignoux brothers gave up on the patent infringement fight, got with Best, and said "you deal with this bulls--t and we will take a cut of what ever you can get".

This next part is a little reading in between the lines, but it seems that the Legaignoux brothers were giving the middle finger to the portion of the industry that had been ripping them off for so many years. Best was the most hated brand among the big names in kiteboarding. And they still are to some degree with most distributors (middle men) like GraemeF - viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2397078 - holding that hate for direct to market brands to this day - It was common for reps/team riders of other brands (Naish?) to let air out of the Best bus tires at kite events. So giving the patent fight to Best, who had good reason to dislike the other brands, was that middle finger to all of those a-holes in the industry lying, cheating, and stealing from the original inventors.

The story would make a great movie. Some of us may actually be flying and buying kites from some of the bad guys.

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Re: Best bankrupt?

Postby wind chaser » Sat Sep 30, 2017 6:57 pm

Little confused about slingshot. Matteo linked an article that mentioned they joined the licensing agreement with Best:

" ...joined in their licensing agreements to the patents are new owners Best, along with other industry leaders Cabrinha, Slingshot, Starkites, Takoon, Airush and most recently, North kiteboarding. Conspicuous in their absence is Naish, Core and several other companies, who get around the patent by designing their kites with a convex leading edge."
(https://www.seabreeze.com.au/News/Kites ... 83805.aspx)

Then there is the bow kite link posted by john (http://bowkite.org) which contradicts the article above about who is joined in the licensing agreement.

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Re: Best bankrupt?

Postby Sun » Sat Sep 30, 2017 7:40 pm

Matteo V wrote:
Sat Sep 30, 2017 5:11 pm
Toby wrote:
Sat Sep 30, 2017 1:39 pm
As I mentioned before, Naish developed the Sigma shape to go around the bow patent.
Pretty much all "odd" and/or "extinct" shapes are products of trying to get around the Legaignoux brothers patent. Just look at Peter Stiewe' patent that Windchaser put a link to. The read in the description is amazing. I don't buy any of it. And I can't believe that anyone would think that this concept would work. Maybe Eleveight kites will have this shape???? Are they licensed to produce the Bow kite???? Again, you should read the description of this "innovation". It is worth it.

http://patentimages.storage.googleapis. ... 844875.pdf
That design is part of the "Reflex Curve" LE on the Best GP I believe. At least the marketing material for the GP used to show that concave LE profile view.

I think Eleveight has entirely left that behind, the FS is closer to the TS than the GP shape wise, if I am not mistaken.

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Flyboy
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Re: Best bankrupt?

Postby Flyboy » Sat Sep 30, 2017 8:03 pm

Matteo V wrote:
Sat Sep 30, 2017 5:11 pm

The story that fits is that the Legaignoux brothers wanted nothing to do with being a kiteboarding manufacture. They just wanted to license others to produce, sell, and have the liability associated with kiteboarding. The Legaignoux brothers wanted nothing to do with running a company. They just wanted their reward for their R&D without any further hassles. This was a fight at first with all of the "big names" we know about ripping off or skirting around the Legaignoux brothers patents. Later the Legaignoux brothers gave up on the patent infringement fight, got with Best, and said "you deal with this bulls--t and we will take a cut of what ever you can get".

This next part is a little reading in between the lines, but it seems that the Legaignoux brothers were giving the middle finger to the portion of the industry that had been ripping them off for so many years. Best was the most hated brand among the big names in kiteboarding. And they still are to some degree with most distributors (middle men) like GraemeF - viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2397078 - holding that hate for direct to market brands to this day - It was common for reps/team riders of other brands (Naish?) to let air out of the Best bus tires at kite events. So giving the patent fight to Best, who had good reason to dislike the other brands, was that middle finger to all of those a-holes in the industry lying, cheating, and stealing from the original inventors.
Interesting story ... if true. It certainly makes a certain amount of logical sense.

I love the simplicity of the kiting concept: stick the sail/wing at the end of 100 foot lines & voila ... apparent wind on demand ... give it inflatable struts to make it water-relaunchable ... give it 4 lines to make it sheetable ... add a bridle to increase depower range. Simples! Props to the Legaignoux boys for figuring this out & giving us this amazing sport. I hope they've made (at least) a respectable living out of it all.

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Re: Best bankrupt?

Postby bjw » Sun Oct 01, 2017 8:13 am

So if Best are in financial trouble did they sell off any of their parents yet? Will they dig themselves out? Is there a 2018 range yet?

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Re: Best bankrupt?

Postby dylan* » Sun Oct 01, 2017 12:43 pm

bjw wrote:
Sun Oct 01, 2017 8:13 am
So if Best are in financial trouble did they sell off any of their parents yet? Will they dig themselves out? Is there a 2018 range yet?
they must be in a serious pickle if they're selling their parents

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Re: Best bankrupt?

Postby Toby » Sun Oct 01, 2017 1:05 pm

What's the patent worth when no one pays for it anymore?

wind chaser
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Re: Best bankrupt?

Postby wind chaser » Sun Oct 01, 2017 7:38 pm

If Best is in trouble why isn't there a record of Best (or i guess the legal name Pure Action Sports Worldwide Inc.) filing chapter 7?
Toby wrote:
Sun Oct 01, 2017 1:05 pm
What's the patent worth when no one pays for it anymore?
To give lawyers a boner - JK. I respect the pioneers of this sport and they deserve to be compensated for their innovations. However, I'm sure lawyers benefit the most out of patent infringement.

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sq225917
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Re: Best bankrupt?

Postby sq225917 » Wed Oct 04, 2017 5:33 pm

Correct, BEST did not purchase the bow kite patents, they were purchased by a holding company owned by Javier, who owns Best.

https://kitesurfingmag.com/north-kitebo ... te-patent/

but other than that you're flat out wrong. Cabrinha, Neil Pryde do/did owe them money and North did enter an agreement to share the design of their chickenloop.

wind chaser
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Re: Best bankrupt?

Postby wind chaser » Wed Oct 04, 2017 7:35 pm

sq225917 wrote:
Wed Oct 04, 2017 5:33 pm
Correct, BEST did not purchase the bow kite patents, they were purchased by a holding company owned by Javier, who owns Best.

https://kitesurfingmag.com/north-kitebo ... te-patent/

but other than that you're flat out wrong. Cabrinha, Neil Pryde do/did owe them money and North did enter an agreement to share the design of their chickenloop.
Former Best Market Director,

Who are you referring to above? Who's statements are correct and who's are wrong? Holding Company? Is that now FGI -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bKGCgoXJAz0.

phpBB [video]


I thought Naish sued Best for copying their chicken loop. Anyway, not sure if the question of this thread has been answered. Is Best Bankrupt?


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