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Correct stance on a waveboard for riding upwind

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Peter_Frank
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Re: Correct stance on a waveboard for riding upwind

Postby Peter_Frank » Tue Oct 03, 2017 10:25 am

bragnouff and BWD and others are spot on.

There is not a definitive answer, and on most boards it helps moving the rear foot forward, on others it will make them bounce more and not better really (not worse either, apart from the aaaargh bouncing).
Typically boards that are a bit wider and wider tail can ride just as good upwind without really moving forward - but many boards are like that now.

Other boards will NOT work at all upwind, if you stand in your normal waveride stance (or strapped stance if straps).

It does not matter if strapped or strapless actually - only difference could be that some prefer to stand further forward with their front foot too when upwind (compared to waveriding), others dont but stand a bit more narrow instead, which is relaxing and efficient.

My best advice if you are new to these boards, and you must be, is TIME !!!

If you come from a TT you will do many things wrong: Ride with board edged, load on the rear foot etc, which are very wrong - the central point is around the front foot on a waveboard.

But everybody without exception, starting on a waveboard for the first time, coming from a TT, does not go upwind well, or not at all - takes some time getting used to.

Just keep on - you knew all these pointers even before this thread, ride and learn yourself.

Maybe you dont even have to try that hard, except for knowing that rear foot a bit forward usually helps on everything, but just ride and time will solve it quite fast, maybe without you knowing why, IMO :thumb:

8) Peter

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Re: Correct stance on a waveboard for riding upwind

Postby Matteo V » Tue Oct 03, 2017 3:03 pm

Quad vs thruster is important. The stances and techniques for upwind are pretty opposed to each other for each configuration.

Thruster:
1. Ride with your body weight over the top of the board, not hiked out. This works great with strapless.
2. Keep the nose calm and pointed in the direction you wish to go upwind. Don't let the nose bounce around different directions. Thrusters travel in line with the center line of the board and do not "crab" sideways without spinning out.
3. Stop the fins from side loading so you do not spin out. A thruster will go where it is pointed so you do not need to add load to the fins.

Quad
1. Hike out a little bit if strapless, hike out a lot if strapped as you will gain even more upwind ability.
2. Let the nose bounce (point upwind and downwind with chop) around and don't worry about it. Try to point your path of travel, not the board, where you want to go. Quads do not travel in the same direction as the center line of the board. They tend to crab a bit and even have better upwind as you crab (load the fins) more.
3. Side load the fins and point off of the fins, not the center line of the board. Quads have very little "stability" and push upwind when traveling in direction of the center line so you should focus on the feedback from the fins.

Peter_Frank wrote:
Tue Oct 03, 2017 10:25 am

It does not matter if strapped or strapless actually -
Strapless requires you to "trim" the board by moving forward or back on it a bit. This really only occurs when attempting to maximize upwind, or when on a wave that is too steep with a tail that is too wide.

Strapped allows you to not have to move your feet as you can trim with "upward" foot pressure against the straps, along with it allowing more sideways pressure. Straps allow more instantaneous and extreme body weight shifts wit no foot movement.

Put simply, with strapped, you will not move your feet because you do not have to in any situation. With strapless, you have to find a sweet spot for - light wind upwind in no chop, light wind with chop, high wind upwind in no chop, high wind upwind in chop, too wide tailed of a board on a steep face, too small a wave with a too narrow tailed board, etc....
Attachments
ThrusterVsQuad.jpg
BoardAngle.jpg

vanille_pete
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Re: Correct stance on a waveboard for riding upwind

Postby vanille_pete » Tue Oct 03, 2017 7:57 pm

Hey guys!

thank you all for your replies.
today i read all your posts while i was waiting for the wind to come up and tried to memorize all the advices :)

the wind was around ~22 / 25 knots in choppy conditions i went for the 7m and my north quest TT (strapless and 3 fins) and focused on the two techniques you guys mentioned

- board flat in the water, most of my weight on the front foot , back foot not at the end more towards the middle, twist my hips (twintip-like) and knees slighty bent - this worked pretty fine i had a good feeling and i went up wind "ok" (nevertheless it must have looked pretty funny for the people on the beach as the saw the "shit stance" as it was a bit shaky on the waveboard)

then i went for

- front and back foot same position like before (front foot on the front side of the pads, back foot towards the middle) while having most of my weight on the front foot - twist my hips, front leg straighten, back leg bent and middle / heavy pressure on the heels (i guess it was a typcial twintip stance) this worked very good!!

i guess its all about feeling and conditions like you guys told me before, nevertheless the more power you have, the easier it is - i guess i need to do the same tests in lower winds.

thank you all!

i'll be practicing, the feeling of strapless riding is way better then it is on a twintip, although i only can ride back and forwards without any smooth turns.

thanks!

//btw: the picture is nice, i try to keep it in mind! do both techniques have the same up-wind ability/performance if they are performed right?

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Re: Correct stance on a waveboard for riding upwind

Postby Bushflyr » Tue Oct 03, 2017 8:32 pm

Some interesting points above, and while not technically wrong, they all ignore the most important factor; WHY you move your foot forward and flatten the board. It all has to do with drag, power, and trig. Most people suggest moving forward because we typically don't ride surfboards super lit. When you don't have a ton of excess power moving the back foot forward and flattening the board reduces drag. With less drag on the board you can point higher without bogging. However if you're really powered moving forward will result in getting pulled over the board and losing ground. You have to be back on the tail to keep the fins and rail dug in.

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Re: Correct stance on a waveboard for riding upwind

Postby knotwindy » Tue Oct 03, 2017 9:06 pm

One more opinion
3 distinct ways mildly depending on water states, mostly dependent on power
1) Underpowered Can use the rail more going slower
2) comfortable Can use the fins, board flattened, twist the hips, go faster
3) Overpowered Use the fins, also board flatter, twist hips but go a bit slower
Because the apparent wind can be too much and you will not go as high into the wind

All of these require you to have your weight more forward than a tt or when on a wave, you can move either foot or both to get there. Also, you are not going in a straight line. As the wind gusts, point higher. As the wind lulls, drop off a bit but only as much as necessary to maintain speed then point back up as the wind increases. You are scalloping up, always adjusting,
Point higher, the backing off, then pointing higher, backing off always looking for the best angle at speed. Almost never a straight line.
Also, IMO, it is almost impossible to combine the above # 1 & 2. You have to pick one although you can mix and match # 2 & 3.


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