Yes, isn't that an interesting (even trivial) observation: LEI's have much lower projected AR's than foils and even though they are most widely used kites.jannik wrote: Yes, I will have to test and see. I have bars both with and without trim so no problem.
I left foils for leis only because the leis where much better in waves in my experience, so this kite came as plessant surprise (I hope it lives up to the expectations).
I never understood why foils always had to be so high AR. My leis are 1.77 in projected AR and the lowest AR foil I ever had was 4 (Flat AR) just to make a comparison. That foil was also the most fun.
Me too like both kite types and use them, but nowadays I use foil kites almost only in the winter. I have huge amount of all kinds of kites and I've tested much over 100, perhaps 200 different kite models through the years. I'm familiar to every kite type, from C-kites to strutless kites, from arcs to high end foil kites. I also know single skin kites (Peaks) and I have made them also as well as arcs. BTW these two are much more difficult concepts than foil kites, which always work better or worse.Regis-de-giens wrote: ↑Thu Oct 05, 2017 12:17 amKite-expert,
Some of your analysis need correction. It is not linked to this topic so sorry for the disgretion. But among errors the main one is that inertia and weight have no direct impact on L/D ratio. It will rather decrease agility (but can increase stability in drift or light wind) . Hence saying that a low AR LEI has same drag or performance than higher AR foilite is just non-sens.
Higher AR of foilkite is more linked to history and demand : before hydrofoil , Ram air where mainly interesting in lighter winds, where high AR was needed to stay upwind (Very important before hydrofoil). Then Hydrofoilers "Re-discovered " foilkite advantages for their better speed : they gained precious seconds in competition. Now that hydrofoil practices evolve , mid or low AR foilkites allows to combined low end, stability and drift for wave surfers, while upwind is not an issue anymore on Hydrofoil. But believe it or not the very low end (In the sense of riding just upwind) is lower with a middle AR kite, folkite a-fortiori. And Stephane will tell you that relaunch is often easier and quicker in wave (for simiar low AR kites).
With all the respect I can have for you, i wonder how you could have the pleasure to develop your own low ratio foik kite , with so much negative aprioris on ram air kites !
Just look at the video from Stephane Goffinet above in this post (From 1 : 30 approx) and you will notice what is the incredible level of stability at drift with slack lines. Struted LEI will not offer that I'm affraid. Regarding the agility, it seems to be sufficienty quick turning !
Just as reminder : I use (and like) both LEI and foilkites, so no religion to defend on my side.
Could you please elaborate on the above?kitexpert wrote: ↑Wed Oct 04, 2017 10:01 am
2)LEI's are single skins. This has some advantage in low winds, single skin kite tolerates higher AoA before backstall. Difference in practice is you can just sheet in a LEI to get some power (with very low airspeed), but you must get some flying speed to a foil kite. Just sheeting in without speed usually chokes foil kite.
Ok for the second part on stability which is important on "Real life" hyperlight wind ride on the water. However in light winds, even more than in strong winds, we need to reduce drag as much as possible because it is not the value of the drag itself that really matters but its ratio with lift (called L/D ratio for everyone to understand) . This ratio will drive your upwind angle (Not the drag alone). So since the Lift reduces a lot light wind, you need to decrease also a lot the drag, so thick briddles (and lines...) are detrimental to expreme light wind .
I don't. I'm offering an explanation to some of the differences people experience when they compare kites other than "it's because it's a foil/LEI/single-twin skin/ARC/other....!".
So another important point: upper and lower camber. The answer is not "because it is a twin skin". Rather the question is: why is lower camber not build convex in foil kites? I bet there is a good explanation.
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