*


All times are UTC + 1 hour



Post new topic Reply to topic
 [ 10 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: Caution answer observations in 12 and 16 meter sizes.
PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2006 6:58 am 
Offline
Very Frequent Poster
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2002 1:00 am
Posts: 688
A few of the guys at the beach wanted to give the new 16 caution answer that has been hiding in the back of the car a run today. It was just the sight of some whales cruising north through a sea of pseudo- whitecaps that inspired us to get wet . It was showing 8 to a 13.4 mph high on my beach wind meter...The one way valves worked well and the construction was usual caution bommer. Sand on one tip launch was a piece of cake. With a 5'11 inch fish surfboard with straps, my 195 pounds was going up wind occasionally to visit the whales. Average around 9.5 probably.. Not quite enough as most gusts were only in the 11/12 mph range. Only other guy out with me (about twenty pounds lighter and also on a directional) was on a 21 Gastra Phoenix and actually not doing any better (gang on beach said my combination was getting a better upwind angle consistently do to slowness of turning speed of the other fellows kite. He is expert rider).. Here is the advantage of all these bows in larger sizes IF they can turn well. Smaller kite with more power while retaining turning speed of the small size..Ww waited on the beach with the phoenix user and the average wind got into the 10/11mph average zone with consistent gusting top end of 14mph.. I was cruising upwind and riding little waves/small pop jumps with my 195 pounds. Then the kite was taken by our friends..
The stock 55 cm bar worked well to pivot the 16 meter surprisingly quickly. The wind came up to about 18/20mph average later in the day and their was more than suffiecient depower to handle heaps more with the 16. We took out the 12 when it hit around 14mph average so the guys could compare the kites side by side.
The observation from others was that the 16 turned more like a very good 14m or even 12 meter c kite than like a 16 meter. Most of the guys who have been using my 12 m (turn like 10 with power about that of 14c) and another 16 answer,had never used an sle type kite and were very comfortable with these kites 15-30 minutes. The most common problem observed, is oversheeting from old c kite habits. This is particularly evident when the wind is light. This seems to be a common thread with all the Bows/sles we have had long time c users test. The cautions lower aspect and more c shape is much easier for them to adapt to than some of the other flatter bows. (Didn't say better, just different) The throw on the bar and the set up is very similar to what they are used to with the added benefit of the more c shape feel to the kite in turning and jump response. These sle kites all love apparent wind so one must let them rip. Sheet in to snap turn them and then push it away for speed. You need to fine tune the depower strap to allow the kite to accelerate. We see a lot of people stalling their sle's through turns and accross the window and loosing heaps of power and performane.
The rumor out there that larger bows/sles don't work well was once again proven wrong by this particular kite. "It is the most fun I have had on a kite since learning" said Ferrell, an eight year kitesurf veteran, after spending the afternoon on my 16 and 12 m answer. (180 pounds w small directional) He went back and forth between the two kites and was equally impressed.
The bar load is light if flown on the knot and it is very much a fine tuning thing for each person to get the most out of kite speed and apparent wind to maximize the bottom end of the 16 and 12 m kite. The 12 bar came set up with the knot one too high for the riders in todays conditions. One knot down and they were totally stoked. These little changes make a HUGE difference in the kites performance. The 16's bar came set up perfectly for us, right out of the bag.
Sometimes it is more instructive to watch others fly you're kite than to fly it yourself. A slight change in depower strap length and a tip on snapping in on one side of the bar while sheeting in just for the turn followed by exagerating the sheeting out for speed, had Ferrell flying upwind on the 12 where he thought he needed the 16 a few minutes prior.
In summary. The 16 answer, does not feel like a 16 meter kite but delivers the bottom end of an 18m and the turning of a 14. "Others coments"
Self launch and land is as with a C kite, no problem. Sand the tip/fly and rotate in last second, respectively. The leash system does depower it well but this is not a super long sonic slide chicken loop that totally depowers the kite. The o-shiaaat handle works well when you are totally detached from the kite. As often times we fly the rear lines quite loose and the bar is small on the 12 (though perfectly adequate 50cm), when relaunching in light winds it seems to help a little bit to let out the depower strap just a little bit to regain rear line tension to direct the kite up. Not so much as to stall it of course. The 16 was very stable in some relatively gusty conditions today. The benefit of working the 16 and the 12 in performance gain is very significant. You can park and cruise but the advantages lie in working the superior turning with power of these kites.
There are many great kites out there, so give as many a try as you can before buying. We liked this 12 and 16m caution sle a lot. Hopefully we will get the conditions to try the nine meter anwer and another brands SLE this week.
Disclaimer....We do sell Caution kites as well as Peter Lynn,GK Sonics,Flysurfer, etc and most other brands in the past...whatever kite we like enough to use ourselves or teach our girlfriends on.


{ SHARE_ON_FACEBOOK } { SHARE_ON_TWITTER } { SHARE_ON_ORKUT } { SHARE_ON_DIGG } { SHARE_ON_MYSPACE } { SHARE_ON_DELICIOUS }
Top
Profile
 Post subject: Great tuning tips
PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2006 4:34 pm 
Offline
Rare Poster

Joined: Sun Oct 14, 2001 1:00 am
Posts: 17
Liked the comments on how important it is to properly tune any kite. A small amount of tuning can make a substantial difference in the amount of performane being achieved.

Speed Kills, Use Caution!


Top
Profile
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2006 4:52 pm 
Offline
Very Frequent Poster

Joined: Fri Mar 31, 2006 5:44 pm
Posts: 760
Location: Windekind,Belgium
so u didn't get to test their topend nor the nine :cry: (I'd love to know how well a 9-16 would be)

thanks (for the review),

Helldog


Top
Profile
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2006 1:16 am 
Offline
Very Frequent Poster
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2002 1:00 am
Posts: 688
Hi Helldog...
We got to try the nine a couple of days ago and instantly lost it to a customer who just had to have it secondary to it's impressive low end/turning for my weight in those conditions. They were all saying "there is no way you are getting going in that wind, except for Ferrell who said "bet that kite will do it"...It sure as hell did.. A guy at 220 was testing my 16 and screaming up wind. I am 195 and Allan Sarlo was using his 14 spitti two at my weight and just getting up wind. I put up the 9 and working it a bit had no problem flying up wind on it. The thing is SOOOO much fun in the surf. We thought the 16 and 12 were crazy fast and fun for there size.. Well the 9... I really did not think I would have enough power in the winds at the time. Even an expert level gal who weighs in at 140 thought the kite would be way to small for her at that wind but she was LIT and absolutely loved ripping the crud out of the little waves on my 9 answer. A fast board is the perfect complement to these things. She had a thrashed JL F rad and is going to get a nice fast surf style board and then get an answer 9. I got a whopping 20 minutes on it prior to having her take it from me and then Ferrel just watching it and saying "I gotta have it!!!" and so went my 9 m answer..(Another just came to the door..he, he..yeehaaaww..) I have now used the 16 answer in about 20 mph average with gusts to around 25 with no problem at all. This does not sound like much, but I was riding on a 5'10" UG old school fish straped kite/surfboard... I coud easily depower the kite to take the gusts and it still turned well without a nasty feeling of awkward tracking of the kite as an overpowered C would have felt while turing in the surf.. Now my 12 answer would have been nicer of course..Just making the rear lines looser by even an inch makes a HUGE difference in range with these puppies. So the 16/9 quiver is definately a viable option, especially if you have a flatter rocker, surf style board for the light or in between conditons. That said, for our local summer winds around here,most heavier guys are seeming to be going for the 16/12 quiver. I just have to have all three. Just way too much stinking fun and besides, they will just disapear out of my own quiver as buds give them a shot. Oh yeah, bottom end of the 16 is just plain remarkable, but does like to be flown rather than parked at the bottom. Very similar to the 14 sonic bottom end power but with a different style of flying required to keep it airborne in that crud/ hole sort of wind. Gotta say, these answers are very impressive kites. The 16 comes with a 55 cm bar which is perfect size for it. I was using a much larger bar for both the sonic and the 12 answer to experiment with a full sliding depower on the answers. The stock caution bar works very, very well and though you do not have the huge sheeting, flying the kite off of the knot 80 percent of the time greatly reduces arm load and the length of the sheathed chicken loop length is adequate for adjusting to an acceptable amount of gust/hole range. Still waiting to try that ozone and OR 1 to test. So far for waves....Answer for my heavy arse and our light winds. These kites really like to be flown and not just parked in the light stuff. It really has a lot to do with your prefered style.
Hope this helped in your choice. That nine that just arrived is going to stay hidden in my car, at least for now or at least till these rebroken ribs heal..Doooohhhh... :wink:


Top
Profile
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2006 5:38 pm 
Offline
Medium Poster

Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2005 1:11 am
Posts: 197
hey guys, just cut n pasting my response from another page in case you missed it...

got to ride my 12m answer today in 20mph gusting to 28mph. totally blown away! it almost felt like a new sport to me. like going from driving a dump truck to driving a new porche. turns like a 6m 'c' kite. i personally prefer that it doesn't give me that 100% depower of other bow kites. more like 80%. despite gusts to high 20's (i weigh 200lbs & have been kiting for 6 years) i never felt overpowered. stupidly huge jumos that actually scared me! i have been riding cabrinha nitro's, north rhino's, flexifoil storm II's & none of them jumped half as high. kite loops very easily, some might say too easily but you can do them more powered up if you prefer. not too much bar pressure. i'd say around the same as the waroo or sonic. way less than the cross bow. awesome in the waves. i like the way it maintains power through the bottom turn yet you can still dump plently of power. overall i am more than stoked. i rode for about 1 1/2 hrs then passed it on to a friend who was equally blown away. i am still getting used to having so much more performance. i already felt like i was riding better than ever. this kite is an unfair advantage for kiters who are just starting. i've been around since the days of two line foils & this kite makes everything just so stupidly easy & fun! i will write more when i've tried the 16m & gotten more used to such a pimped out ride!


Top
Profile
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue May 02, 2006 3:34 pm 
Offline
Rare Poster

Joined: Wed Apr 19, 2006 9:03 pm
Posts: 21
Location: So Cal.
I have had two sessions on the Answer 12m, I weigh 195lbs and have been kiting for 2.5 years, and have been riding spitfires until now. The first session was gusty 15 - 30 mph onshore blownout Zuma. At first I was overflying the kite because it is so fast, but after an hour I started getting a feel for it. The depower is amazing in these conditions, you could go left
on the waves which normally means an overpowered drop down the face struggling to stay on the wave, and just let the bar out, the kite would depower letting you hit the lip backside. I spent the rest of the session in the surf zone. The second session was flat water 10-20, my bro's were on 16m spitfires. I didn't think there was enough wind but wanted to fly the kite anyway. This kite blew me away, it can generate so much power, you just sine it a couple of times, let the bar out some and ride it's apparent wind. I have the 16m and had it out in 10mph winds, on my twin tip I had to do downwinders, but I could go upwind on my 5'8" underground surfboard. I love this kite, thanks to MonkeyAir for the great deal.


Top
Profile
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2006 2:40 am 
Offline
Medium Poster

Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2005 1:11 am
Posts: 197
that's an interesting comment about the answer turning so quickly. it did take me a while to get used to how friggin fast it turns. i keep hearing about how fast the vegas turns but the answer seems to turn even faster. there were even a couple of jumps where i accidently looped the kite on the way down but still landed comfortably. after trying it side by side with the waroo i'd have to say it is more of a high performance kite. it turns faster and doesn't have (what i personally find annoying) an excessive ammount of depower that most of the other bow kites have. i think caution have found the right balance. even in wind averaging low 20's & gusting to high 20's i was never over powered. it does take getting used such a fast turning kite though but that's a good thing. my only complaint, which is a minor one, is that the quick release is still a bit old school & not intuitive enough. i think flexifoil's new bars have such an easy & intuitive punch out system that works great. i had flexi's new 06' ion bar for my 'c' kites & it has an easy to use release. the answer's safety release is that old school velcro strap deal which, in my experience anyway, never work that well & are hard to find when you need them to release in an emergency situation. other than that i can't imagine a better kite. maybe by making it a one pump? i am looking forward to trying them in light winds now.


Top
Profile
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu May 04, 2006 12:52 pm 
Online
Frequent Poster

Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2004 4:34 am
Posts: 306
Location: SoCal
Hey Traig,

How does it compare to a 19m V1? Low end, stability, speed, gust?

Thanks
Bill


Top
Profile
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 05, 2006 3:14 am 
Offline
Medium Poster

Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2005 1:11 am
Posts: 197
I rode my 16m answer today in low teens-mid teens with gusts in the upper teans. I weigh about 200lbs & was on an 06' 132 Underground FLX.

The 16m turns extemely fast for a 16M & is generally lots of fun to ride! A far cry form what i am used to in 16M kites. It probably turns like a typical 05' 12M 'c' kite which is a good thing. No where near as fast as the 12M Answer but much faster than any 'c' kite in that size. It was very easy to generate apparent wind during lulls. I never had any probelm going up wind. This kite loves to cut fast upwind. I was never overpowered during gusts. I think Caution have found that sweet spot in depower ability.Not too much, nor too little. The kite turns very quickly & i was cutting powerful transition turns like i'd never done before. I also rode unhooked a fair bit & found it more manageable than any 'c' kite I'd ever ridden unhooked. I looped the kite during turns & it was very smooth although it did generate a lot more power looping than the 12M did which is to be expected in a larger kite. This kite is super easy to fly & pretty much does everything well.

A couple of negatives though. The kite does have a tendancey to overfly & it did 'hindenburg' on about three jumps (out of many jumps) & completely fall from the sky which sucks! i did not have this problem with the 12M but will be on the look out for it. I corrected the problem by making sure i retained tension in the lines if i missed on a jump. I didn't notice this on the 12M but it is an issue with the 16M. Maybe it is something that can be remedied through some sort of bridle adjustment but i'll leave that to someone more techincally minded than me. I don't think the Waroo has this problem though. Once i did get used to jumping the problem was less & less apparent & by the end of the session it wasn't much of an issue at all. Still though it would nice not to have to worry about it at all & i'd have to agree now that the Waroo might be a better choice for a beginner because of this. This is the type of thing beginners don't want to have to worry about.

One other BIG negative was an inversion. I screamed when it happed & couldn't believe it as i was way off shore. I laid up for a jump & the kite 'hindenburged' & flopped forward then flipped under itself then relaunched completely inverted. It then started spinning out of control until it hit the water's surface after looping about five times all the while dragging me down wind. If i had been near shore it could have resulted in a bad accident. There was almost nothing i could do to relaunch. Finally a friend rode up & i asked him to flip the kite over. It was a bit of a risky gamble but it paid off. The kite hot launched but i was able to gain control. I rode to the beach & pumped up really hard. The leading edge bladder hadn't been hard enough even though i thought it had been. I think a slightly soft leading edge bladder may have been the problem. I friggin hope so because it wasn't an amusing experience.

Despite these two negatives i still love this kite. It is a super fun kite to ride & the performance qualities are similar to the 12M Answer only in a larger size.

A side note here...After my session i went out on a friend's 06' Rhino II 16m. I hate to say this but the kite just felt so dead. It was totally unresponsive compared to The Answer. The 06' Rhino didn't turn even a 10th as well, go upwind as well, jump as well, loop as well or depower as well as The Answer. It just felt totally lame. I would avoid this kite at all costs. The only good thing i would say about it is that it is very predictable (Read 'boring' & 'lifeless'). After riding the Vegas i wonder why North even bothered to put this permforanceless kite dead fish piece of high tech boredom. The 04 Rhino is a much better kite. I felt bad for my friend who saw how much fun i was having on my Answer as he was regretting having bought the 06' Rhino.


Top
Profile
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 05, 2006 9:28 am 
Offline
Very Frequent Poster
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2002 1:00 am
Posts: 688
How does it compare to a 19m V1? Low end, stability, speed, gust?
Hi Bill.
Answer 16 is far faster, better turning and has more low end power.
Venom one 19 is light years more stable and has much smoother gust absorbsion. Range is great on both these kites.
Both require the arc style flying technique to get the low end performance out of them and those that try to fly the answer like an old large parked c grunt monster, loose the benefits of it's speed and apparent wind generating properties. Some other sle kites generate more performance with this method but loose the fantastic turning with power assets of the answer.
Both of these kites benefit greatly in the light stuff with a very fast, efficient board.
Have Fun. Traig


Top
Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic
 [ 10 posts ] 

All times are UTC + 1 hour


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group