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 Post subject: Ozone style 5th line - simplified
PostPosted: Sun May 14, 2006 1:14 pm 
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Here is a picture of a 5th line system which is sheetable automatically in a 2:1 ratio (5th line length:power line length), by adjusting the power line trim strap.

I have labeled it the "James" style since I saw it on a bar set up by James W. Has anyone manufactured and sold this system? Who? .....and, if so, what was it called? I am trying to compile diagrams of all possible 5th line systems. I have posted a few of these in the past month.

This "James" system is simular in function to the new "Ozone" system which is included on their new flat kite, the "Instinct", in that the power line adjuster pulls in twice as much of the 5th line length, as it does the power line... but it differs from the Ozone system in that it takes twice the force to pull and adjust the power line adjuster. This appears to be the case, because with the "James" system the rider has a 2:1 advantage as a result of the one pully, but with the Ozone system the rider has a 4:1 advantage because of the one ring acting like a pully to give a 2:1 advantage,....plus the tunnel at the top of the sheet cleat acting to give another 2:1 advantage....for a total of 2 x 2 =4. Correct me if I am wrong, please.

Here are pictures of the basic diagrams of the "James" and "Ozone" systems.


Attachments:
5th- James style 2 to 1 adjuster.JPG
5th- James style 2 to 1 adjuster.JPG [ 103.74 KIB | Viewed 2944 times ]
kf Ozone style 5th basic design.JPG
kf Ozone style 5th basic design.JPG [ 107.39 KIB | Viewed 2943 times ]
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun May 14, 2006 4:12 pm 
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I am putting together a prototype like picture 1 with the cleat below the bar. I am going to make the depower line long enough so that when the chicken loop is released and you are attached to the end of the sheeting line with a leash the kite will kill on to the 5th line. In theory if the 5th is being pulled twice as much as the fronts eventually all tension will move to the 5th and "kill" the kite if the depower line is long enough. I think this might be a good system for C kites, but also for people with bows who are looking for that extra bit of safety if something goes wrong with a bridle or pulley and want to "kill" the kite. I hate spinning rear line leashes they always get tangled.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2006 12:50 am 
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[quote="charjulio"]I am putting together a prototype like picture 1 with the cleat below the bar. I am going to make the depower line long enough so that when the chicken loop is released and you are attached to the end of the sheeting line with a leash the kite will kill on to the 5th line.

Charjulio,

I think your idea has merit. The only problem might be the amount of force it will take to sheet in the cleat below the bar. You will have to try it to find out if you have the strength to do it with only a 2:1 ratio, and your arm pulling close to your body....It may turn into a 2 handed job, with one hand pulling from above the bar and the other pulling below the bar at the cleat. Let us know how it works. With the sheet cleat above the bar, the rider can just grab the ball and hang on it ....through his body weight and lean, placing a lot of force on the adjustment rope. Having the cleat below the bar may not as dangerous as it seems at first thought, since, I think you will find that you will use the adjustment of the power line not so much as a method of quickly depowering the kite, (since you will be able to do that by pushing out the bar on its long throw), but I think you will use the depower adjustment infrequently, and mainly to adjust the distance the bar is from your spreader bar,,,,,,You will do this in order to find a comfortable position of the bar depending on your arm length and the wind strength. This is the case when riding with flat kites like the Sonic, which have a long depower throw. ....different from riding the classic "C" kite and its need for emergency depower adjusting.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2006 2:53 am 
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here is a picture of what I was thinking about. I couldn't tell if you were thinking I was going to do a sonic kind of system or not from your last post.


Attachments:
Ozone set up.jpg
Ozone set up.jpg [ 4.19 KIB | Viewed 2705 times ]
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2006 3:00 am 
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a little bigger?


Attachments:
Wedding and Padre 001.jpg
Wedding and Padre 001.jpg [ 203.2 KIB | Viewed 2702 times ]
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2006 3:39 am 
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Great work, tell us what kite you use and how it flies with the moving 5th.

General Q:
What about Y front line setup and avoiding the swivel? Y seems like an advantage when you depower that much, keeps the kite from flattening out. TW has a span line to keep the kite from flattening.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2006 2:14 pm 
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Charjulio,

Wow! You are thinking outside of the box….good work.

In order to analyze the diagram I need some clarification on the following points:

1. Why the “chicken footâ€


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2006 2:55 pm 
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Kitezilla

"1. Why the “chicken footâ€


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2006 10:43 pm 
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Charjulio,

Thanks for a very clear answer to all my questions. I think you have invented a very clever system which will allow you to use the power line as a safety. I think that a kiter could even use this system to self-launch the kite using the 5th line and a method of belaying out the kite (I have almost finalized my method for doing this and will post the procedure in a little while).

I think the final judgement rests on the verdict determined by "friction". I think that there is a chance that the friction of the 5th line passing through the "axis swivel", and probably rubbing against the ring....plus the friction of the power line passing through the ring, and the hole in the bar twice, and the tunnel in the sheet cleat.....may actually work in favor of the functioning of your system, rather than against it. I think that when you release the chicken loop and throw the bar in order to engage the power line/5th line safety, the kite will supply enough drag to overcome all these frictional forces, plus the 2:1 resistance force of the power line (due to the pass through of the ring), and as a result the kite will drift far enough away from you to suspend itself on mostly the 5th line. I think the friction from the lines passing through the holes and rings will supply enough force on the other 4 lines to stabilize the kite and keep it from flying up out of the water on the 5th line, as one would wish. This friction may also have a hidden benefit in preventing the kite from flipping inside-out and purse-stringing the kite on its 5th line. On the other hand, the frictional forces may work to resist the effort of the kite to suspend itself on the 5th line by causing the kite to stick in a position where it can be caught by a gust and twist or tangle some of the lines. Your "on the water" testing will bring to light any problems due to friction of the lines.

Overall, I am betting that the "Charjulio 5th/power/safety line system" will work!

Let us know what you find.


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 Post subject: pics
PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2006 1:57 am 
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built it tonite....pics


Attachments:
Ozone depower 001.jpg
Ozone depower 001.jpg [ 29.61 KIB | Viewed 2484 times ]
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