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 Post subject: Call for discussion - 5th line vs. bridled SLE
PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 9:38 pm 
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The introduction of the North (Rebel) and Naish (Boxer SLE and Shockwave) had me thinking about the merits of a 5th line and the bridle systems. Of course, there are other kite brands in these two categories, but the recent announcements made these come to mind now.

I currently ride Torch2s with a 5th line. I really like and appreciate the performance and safety of the 5th line, so the Rebel seems very enticing.

Especially to the kite designers and test riders, what are your thoughts on bridles vs. 5th line for similar kites? Assume all around riding and wave riding.

Look forward to testing them both!


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 10:56 am 
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this is a very good topic. I would also like to know more form the ones, who are riding/testing both.
Since I see more kites (bows/hybrids) now with options for bridles and 4 lines or 5th line system.

What is better, what is the difference in riding, turning etc???

Let us know!

Thanks
Toby


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 11:16 am 
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Unfortunately its probably too soon for an intelligent discussion on this. Too few people have ridden flat kites with 5th lines to know what's really up with that.

We'll just get the usually mud slinging 5th versus bridle crap this forum is good at lately.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 1:49 pm 
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i cant wait.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 2:11 pm 
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but it is interesting to know before we get on these kites, so then we have a larger knowledge and it may help us.

Someone from Slingshot can answer it, since they offer both!!!


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 2:21 pm 
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Dwight wrote:
Unfortunately its probably too soon for an intelligent discussion on this. Too few people have ridden flat kites with 5th lines to know what's really up with that.

We'll just get the usually mud slinging 5th versus bridle crap this forum is good at lately.


When it comes to X vs Y all form of "intelligent" discussions go out the window.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 3:57 pm 
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Toby wrote:
but it is interesting to know before we get on these kites, so then we have a larger knowledge and it may help us.

Someone from Slingshot can answer it, since they offer both!!!


I can give you my perspective.

Take stacey my rep, in fact any kite boarding professional, for the most part they "know" 4 line C's and 5 line which depending on its variety and the brand you ride has only limited affect on the riding style, by and large they dont like the feel of bows, the lightness at the bar, or the timing of the jumps and the depower even in the air that the structure of hte leading edge of a bow has. (The leading edge cannot be as structured as a C, or it wouldn't depower the way it does, this also exacerbates what y'all call inverts)

Me, I've had one smash too many, I've lost count of the drags, smashes, and even serious accidents, that being kite test dummy of 1st out of the box kites has done to my confidence over the years, so I love the bow concept. Never have been a real high end performance rider, way too old so dont really know what I'm missing nor do I care.

So its 2 different riders 2 different desires, now equally catered for either by riding a bridled leading edge or a 5 line.

Now I'm slowly coming round to the fact that if I let go, when things go wrong, it all stops (Or at least it should) But with a fifth line, you physically have to unhook (which is O.K. for highend guys since for the most part the shit they pull they are unhooked when it all goes tits up) to enter safe mode. Now its been my experience that you dont get time, you may be lucky and survive the first bounce conscious then pull the safety, but very often if you get yanked for whatever reason, it comes hard fast and you have no reaction time.

We've just had a week of flying a kite designed to use either method, it flys totally different to the point you'd think you were on entirely different brands of kite. The jump timing has to be earlier on the bridled version and the height isn't there, but the glide is greater, just like a bow.

Switch to 5 line C style and thats what it acts like, which most of the better riders were used to, and so that's what they liked.

At the end of the day we all like what we're used to, and if it somehow crisps it all up then we're sold. So there's nothing earth shatteringly different going on here. Bow riders will still like bows and C - 5liners will still like 5 liners, only problem will be spotting the bullshit when it comes, but thats just down to trial and error just like it always was.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 4:26 pm 
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Dont get hung up on fifth as safetey only. On just comming Rebel from North and on Instinct from Ozone (been out for a while now) it is also trim and you depower both the same way as any bow, But you have the option for a passive fifht safetey as well, unlike all bows that dont have any good "flag" option today..


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 4:51 pm 
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Mlkman wrote:
Dont get hung up on fifth as safetey only. On just comming Rebel from North and on Instinct from Ozone (been out for a while now) it is also trim and you depower both the same way as any bow, But you have the option for a passive fifht safetey as well, unlike all bows that dont have any good "flag" option today..


I think you can flag bows, most of them have a 1 front line flagging option do they not?

Certainly the Turbo Diesel has now, and I'm sure the Airush Halo has for example.

That's one good feature the direct bar of the Link has, its got dual O shits AND a front line redundant safety leash point.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 6:05 pm 
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its like any choice you pays your money and you takes your choice.



a 5th line kite with no bridle is never going to depower as far as a decent SLE. once you remove the bridle, you remove the 'virtual' front pivot points that sit in front of the wingtips and your huge depower is gone.

you can get this back by rounding the tips and adding a 5th to pull the kite down, which is what many C-H-shapes will do this year. but it's not the same as the SLE. but it is more direct in feel...

any hybrid shape is exactly that, it's neither the stability of the 'C' nor the depower and zero loft ability of the 'SLE'


the vague feel on the bar and indirect steering of many bow and 'SLE' kites was down to the design of their control systems, bar mounted pullies and linked front to back bridles at the kite. it's not endemic of the basic design, you can design it in, you can design it out.

if you like what SLE's do then they will all be better this year, tuned into what riders want rather than what companies are offering.

hybrids with 5th lines and no/minimal bridles are just that a mixture of both but with none of the purity of either design.

would i ever ride sn SLE, hell yeh every day, would i ride a hybrid, nope i'd rather haver the old fashioned vanilla c-shape.

but it's horses for courses,and we'll all know the answers once we've tried them all.


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