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 Post subject: WingWing? what happened?(continued)
PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 4:34 pm 
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Location: Wasaga Beach CANADA
This original post was locked by the forum administrator(toby) for no good aparent reason( I could speculate but I wont)

My question is to both bill and c+s,

Are the kites in question(new releases) an old design of last year, what material is being used in the kites as many reports state of inferer material was used and have a duability problem.

Bill,

I have enjoyed your windsurfing sails for some time but have not flown any of your kites. do you plan on still developing kites and patient the design and sell the rights to it, like brouno?

C+S,

Do you believe that fase representation is exceptable, or honest for that mater? I was interested in ww kites at one point but buy the time I had enough money to purchas a kite you lost your designer for what ever reasons, and I dont wish to deal with a company that isn't leading edge.

what have you done to actualy improve ww other than get rid of the original man involved with all the in's and out's?

Smokey


{ SHARE_ON_FACEBOOK } { SHARE_ON_TWITTER } { SHARE_ON_ORKUT } { SHARE_ON_DIGG } { SHARE_ON_MYSPACE } { SHARE_ON_DELICIOUS }
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 6:38 pm 
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Posts: 107
Location: Muc
:thumb: They do have their own forum at ww...try there!!!
Mabey they give you an honest answer :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: WingWing? what happened?(continued)
PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 6:58 pm 
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smokey wrote:
My question is to both bill and c+s,
Are the kites in question(new releases) an old design of last year, what material is being used in the kites as many reports state of inferer material was used and have a duability problem.
Smokey:
If you are referring to the Rampage, I proposed this kite on October 9th, 2005 during an eventual 7 week stay in China while I was instituting production of the Rapture II, preparing the '06 Rage II with an improved FTB SAFE system and reconfiguring the CC and B-Safe bars to eliminate the many problematic issues with them.

Here is a copy of my original email on the subject to the HQ staff in Hood River.
<< Subject: Rampage???
Date: October 9, 2005 10:18:51 PM PDT
All:
Been looking at a lot of 'bow' kites like the GK Sonic, Naish and Cabrinha Switchblade which are little more than last year's Rapture with rounded wingtips and a bridle. We know how to make this kind of kite already and it wold be a lot less radical than the Rapture II. Wonder if we should make a less-flat, faster turning and easier re-launching version called the 'Rampage.'

We could have them on the market pretty quickly and surprise a lot of people with the depth of our line.
Let me know...
- Bill>>

The response was positive and I proceeded to design the kites in three sizes:8, 11, 14. Here is my follow-up email regarding them along with an attachment showing the differences to the Rapture II:

<< Subject: 06 Rampage Concept
Date: October 12, 2005 10:39:43 PM PDT
1 attachment, 119KB
All:
This would be a very easy kite to institute into production as the only change is canopy curve and all other details could be same as Rap II. It could go back to being a 5 strut one or two pump or leave as a 6 strut one pump. Might take away from Rap II sales but also have a wider appeal to those looking for a fast turning, easy re-launch alternative to the Sonic, Switchblade, Nova, Naish and others.
Our line up would be:
Hi-Pro - Rapture II
Mid-Pro - Rampage
Low-Pro - Rage II w/FTB

I could have these ready to test and produce by next week.
Anyone feel like switching on the green light?
- Bill>>

The design concept attachment is included below along with pictures of the first sample kites taken in mid-October. Samples were immediately shipped to the US for testing and I later hand carried another set to Maui for Flash Austin to test. The testing results were highly favorable, especially the 8 and 11. Flash and I along with Devon Boulon were 'laid off' in mid-December. On 12th Feb 2006, I made an announcement here (http://www.kiteforum.com/phpbb/viewtopi ... 29&start=0) regarding this because I felt customers were being led to believe "business as usual." Since that time, I cannot say what materials are used, what changes have been made or where they are produced because I have had no further involvement with Windwing. If you note the design features, it is sad that these kites were not produced at the end of last year as they were ready for production before the Waroo, Waroo Pro, Rebel or Link even existed.
smokey wrote:
Bill,
I have enjoyed your windsurfing sails for some time but have not flown any of your kites. do you plan on still developing kites and patent the design and sell the rights to it, like brouno?Smokey
Smokey:
No, I do not plan to take this approach. If the right situation is presented where true R&D and proper resources are dedicated to the problem, I will consider it. Meanwhile, I am busy on other design projects outside the kite industry. Thanks for your kind comment regarding the sails.
Best regards,
- Bill


Attachments:
06 Rampage vs 06 Rapture II.jpg
06 Rampage vs 06 Rapture II.jpg [ 82.22 KIB | Viewed 1605 times ]
Rampage11,14China.jpg
Rampage11,14China.jpg [ 92.44 KIB | Viewed 1605 times ]
Rampage8China.jpg
Rampage8China.jpg [ 85.03 KIB | Viewed 1606 times ]
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2006 11:25 am 
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Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2006 8:00 pm
Posts: 50
Location: HK
hi Hansen

i feel Rapture II :thumb:
You thought may use such 3line system in Rapture II ?

http://www.kiteforum.com/phpbb/viewtopi ... ht=#353945


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2006 11:34 am 
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if this topic stays on this level, it will be a good and interesting one. So I hope all involved will keep it up. You know what happens if not.

Thanks
Toby


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2006 12:41 pm 
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Location: Wasaga Beach CANADA
Thanks for your input bill.

It will be ineresting to see these kites fly, you state that this design was developed before the rest of the the hybrid style kites. Do you think that the production kites will be the same or a refinement of the original design(someone elses twist on the original)? would be interesting to see!

Now you have me curious, what industry are you designing for now, will you continue with designing windsurfing sails or do you think they have hit a performance peak and are just being refined to a riders style or preference?

Smokey


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2006 5:08 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 5:37 pm
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Location: Redwood City, CA
http://www.hansensails.com/Home


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 Post subject: Re: WingWing? what happened?(continued)
PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2006 5:18 pm 
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Hansen Aerosports wrote:
. It could go back to being a 5 strut one or two pump or leave as a 6 strut one pump.
- Bill


Bill - what is your view on one pump / two pump aswell as on 5struts/6struts? what are the pros and cons ?


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 Post subject: Re: WingWing? what happened?(continued)
PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2006 5:51 pm 
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Joined: Wed Oct 27, 2004 3:59 am
Posts: 58
Location: CT
Smokey, You seam very upset. Are you feeling well? Any back pain? Is your life in order?

I have been reading some of your posts and feel the need to reply.
I haven't posted anything in a long time or bought any gear in a long time because I am thrilled with my WW's!

I kite on the rockiest barnacle covered beach in the east. My WW's take a beating on the worst surfaces but I have never had a single problem with them.
One of them was run over with a SUV with the struts inflated and nothing happened!
I have the original SAFE depower system which is fanfriggintastic!
If the new system is improved I cant imagine how great it will be.

It seams that every kite boarder swears by their brand.
My buddy uses Cabrinha and says they are the best.
However, I'm always rigged quicker than him.
He frequently has bridal problems and on the last gusty onshore day he couldn't depower his Cabrinha and got dragged up the rock beach, across the road taking out a bicycle rider and ended up in the bushes.
Lawsuit pending.

If you are wondering who I am, I’m nobody. Just a guy that kite boards and carefully selects his equipment by watching others actually useing their kites along with physically examining the construction and wear and tare kites get.

If you are ever on the east coast in CT I would be glad to let you take a ride on my kites and you can see for yourself.

Peace out!

A.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2006 6:05 pm 
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Posts: 523
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stormy wrote:
You thought may use such 3line system in Rapture II?
Stormy: Go to: http://www.kiteforum.com/phpbb/viewtopi ... 9&start=30
smokey wrote:
Do you think that the production kites will be the same or a refinement of the original design(someone elses twist on the original)? would be interesting to see!
Smokey: I have no idea what changes may or may not have been made. There are some very significant 3D 'tweaks' in the design which are not available in Surfplan and would be hard to duplicate or change without knowing how or why they were done. Also, I would not design the kites today as I did 10 months ago. Flash's continued use and private feedback has allowed me to make a further development which departs somewhat from that concept.
smokey wrote:
Now you have me curious, what industry are you designing for now, will you continue with designing windsurfing sails or do you think they have hit a performance peak and are just being refined to a riders style or preference?
Smokey: I have a number of projects besides the new windsurfing sail business including orthopedic medical products, several yacht sail/rig developments and my new pet project which is a non-profit foundation for the development of specific purpose-built and designed low-cost, fuel-efficient, safe and reliable coastal fishing vessels for third world countries. Regarding windsurfing sails, I do not think they have reached their peak although the development curve is certainly flatter than in the past. We are currently finalizing a patent on a compliant sail which automatically adjusts it's shape under dynamic load. In testing, we have found it to be a significant improvement in Formula sailing and I believe it will also have applications in high-performance multi-hulls and yachts.
megabear wrote:
what is your view on one pump / two pump as well as on 5struts/6struts?
Mega: I like the idea of two pump (Struts/LE)for safety and better strut pressure but it is more complex. My favorite system was two pump with the center strut separate from the rest but it is not so easy with an even number of struts like Rampage and Rapture (as well as other companies like Monkey or RRD.) Ultimately, we settled on a one-pump with a user option to isolate as many struts as desired. There are some nice systems out there now...
Best regards,
- Bill


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