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 Post subject: New Kitesurfing Wave "Contest" Format
PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 6:00 am 
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O.k., It's hard to get a good look at whats going on in waves and who is really riding well and what really works. Kiting is developing in the internet age and we should take advantage of this. Old school contests don't really work for kiting but we don't have to think that way.

In freestyle the contest thing works and we know who and what is up but in waves it's just full of posers and bullshit and conventional contests are too expensive, too full of biased crap and corporate weasels, and the riding public never sees any of it. Plus conditions are hard to come by and plan internationally so here is my solution.

1. A series of grass roots events that can be organized at any wave spot by the local riders. One universal format that is fair to all and gives meaningful results without an "organization" or the need for sponsors or promoters or snake oil salesmen.

2. Anyone can enter. No company pressure and relative unknowns have just as much chance as top names

3. Each rider pays an entry fee of 100$ dollars which goes to pay for at least two professional video guys who will record every ride over the contest period. This weeds out the joe blow beach entry and compensates the filming and editing with good quality

4. There are no judges. The riders are not judges either and there is no winner declared.

5. Instead, each rider views his clips and chooses his own 5 best rides to be included in the video clip of the "contest". Clips are shown with riders name, kite, board and bar info, hooked, unhooked, straps, strapless info.

6. By participating riders agree to have their entire ride shown. No edits, no single hits, no bullshit. No more one hit wonders and yank out the back airs and crap like that.

7. Within one or two days the video is assembled and put on this forum for all to see and judge for themselves

8. Over time consensus will emerge as to who should and should not be invited to larger international events.

9. We all get to see the latest riders in a timely fashion, the right riders get credit, the sport progresses, we all learn from watching and there is no waiting two years for some lame movie that is edited so much you can't tell what is going on.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 6:04 am 
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Location: Oahu
This really sounds like a great idea. I'll be watching from the beach, but very stoked to do so. :-)

A.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 6:10 am 
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Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2004 6:56 am
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Location: Kailua, Hawaii, currently riding EH and OR kites (2013 Razor rocks!)
Neat idea.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 8:01 am 
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Location: Mexico City, Mexico.
I really like it!!!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 12:23 pm 
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Could work to establish a perception of riders performance on a given day in given conditions. But I don't think it would give credence to any kind of ranking outside of that.

To really know whats going on there has to be a tour which is supported by the top riders and all the manufacturers.

There is no doubt that the PKRA has succeeded with this in freestyle. The KPWT unfortunately has not, although they are making an attempt with their Wavemaster series - the previous 4 years winners Jose Luengo and Herve Boure are not getting much mileage despite them taking it twice each if I'm not mistaken.

Chile is on the PKRA calendar and although this is a one stop tour - it's at least a start and one hopes that this may be the beginning of more to come. Runour has it Vari has been assisting in pulling this one through (big up for that!) and one would imagine the top dogs will go and do this one for the future of the sport.

What's baffling me is that the sport is seeing a growing percentage of riders focussing on waves, yet there seems to be little industry support for getting a tour started. I believe Jaime Herraiz from North might be trying to achieve something - hats off to him for starting the initiative.

Seems like the riders themselves have to lift this one, SWK's proposal could be a great spectacle until we get it organised properly.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 1:16 pm 
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Location: World (KF Admin)
sounds good.

http://www.kiteforum.tv is ready for that, no problem.

The big advantage I see is that all disciplines can be run.

Not sure about not editing etc...not sure if this will work, since then you have to film complete 10 minutes or so?

Why not everyone making a clip with their best 5-10 tricks or runs on a wave?
This way people can edit legally. We only have to see before the jump, while and some seconds after the landing to judge.

Peter: We don't have to be within any guidelines from any tours, not look at their systems how they handle things, and we wouldn't care about their ranking.
This would be stand alone and we all set the rules, we all judge, and due to this we will have our own worldwide ranking.

Maybe we do every 2 months an upload of rider videos, then judge, have a ranking, then next 2 month again, riders keep the ranking they had, and after one year (6 "events") we have a ranking, and with this ranking the riders will be going to an invitational and battle the world champ out there.

Could work and could be great to give local champs the chance to become a top rider, without having to spend 15.000 Euro to be at all world cups.

Keep brainstorming!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 6:48 pm 
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First off, my interest is more in letting everyone who kites judge for themselves who is riding well and letting everyone who kites learn from watching as many great riders as possible. I am not interested in the "industry" or marketing. I think top riders will participate. Why wouldn't they? They get to pick their rides. They shouldn't be afraid to let the world see their riding if they are trying to make it as professionals.

Toby, My idea was just for waves, not freestyle as that is already covered well by conventional contests so jumping wouldn't apply. Clip lenght could be an issue.

Peter, my idea is just to get things started and provide a system that costs very little, needs no central management, no judges, keeps biased parties like riders and companies out of the process and gets the riding out there for all to see. It would provide, as you say, just a "percption of riders performance on a given day in given conditions" but that is all any contest does. At least it is something and more venues and more riders could participate. Consensus takes time and A LOT OF EVENTS THAT EVERYONE CAN ACTUALLY WATCH. We have that opportunity these days with the internet.

The rider judged event at one eye worked o.k. but going forward you will not be able to use riders as judges, too many conflicts, loyalties, cliques, rivalries etc. I think we need to have more interaction and see more riding before a real tour is set up. Kiting is getting too far ahead of itself as usual. It would be better ot offer my system of non judged expression session for a year or two to get some consensus among the larger kiting community and then it could develop into a qualifying tour if a real contest circuit develops?

We have been waiting and talking about a wave tour for years now and nothing has happened. Current system PKRA, KPWT are a proven joke as you point out. Chile is a great thing to hope for but why wait? What if they don't get it good? We wait another year? Big sponsored events have failed to advance the sport. Why not try a totally new approach. Wave kiting doesn't have to follow the path of every other sport out there. We could lead instead of follow.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 11:48 pm 
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Joined: Sun Oct 31, 2004 6:28 pm
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Location: uk
surfing with kites has the key. its gotta be raw footage otherwise u can just salp some shit togeher and anyone can look pro. i can watch shit kiting but like it cos the musics good. we need more core local events maybe get local unknown rippers to send some vids best ones gets a wildcard to compete with the pros. keep it real i dont care wat setup they use i wanna see the fuker rip i wanna shout out loud when something dope happens the footage has to be supper sharp too none of this grainy shit that most kiteforums vids are.

p.s. would anyone like to buy some snake oil?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2007 12:52 am 
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Joined: Sat Jun 19, 2004 5:58 pm
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Location: Santa Cruz, CA
What an excellent idea! Now THAT'S "thinking outside of the box"! This lets kitesurfing develop organically from the places where conditions are naturally consistent, and lets people who kitesurf often but can't afford to live a "tour" lifestyle participate. That probably increases the number of people who decide to get involved in competitions by 10-fold or more.

For me, I don't give a fig about the business side which gets entirely lost (except for Toby, who gets more traffic and interesting features on his site). This is all about the riders pushing their limits and about the people who enjoy watching. In the long run, some additional formality would happen on it's own, but the companies that want to get exposure by being "sponsors" will have to follow the riders rather than the other way around. I love it!

Cheers,

Gideon


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2007 1:19 am 
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yup..I guess the only thing that "worries" me is to what extent you can get riders from around the world to participate unless someone sponsors their trip. I guess displaying the name on the video is a good way...especially since these are videos that will be available for a long time.

Sounds pretty well thought out. It really means that there is more neutrality? Or would it be friends voting for friends? I guess there would be a lot of marketing on the voting process...not that it is entirely neutral today :-)

A.


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