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 Post subject: Re: The Safety Topic: please post your experience and advice
PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 10:23 am 
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karenkites wrote:
My advice is to take plenty of lessons as many as you can afford and then some more, with a quality instructor, you will avoid many problems and when you do encounter a problem you will be better equipped to handle it.
As owner of Northshore Kite and Sail Repair, I can tell you, I've seen alot


That is key..

Unfortunately most people seem to try and save on lessons when they start, they jjust don't know the risks.

What is even worse is how some experienced kitesurfers involved in my rescue, although in shock by what happened they haven't changed their (bad) habits, completely ignoring any lesson side of it. I just don't digest that. Down to an international Kite magazine (local to me) that although initially keen in featuring the whole story (and a happy one too!), they dropped it... Instead to make everyone aware and teach some good safety tips through my experience, they've completely ignored it. They are probably too busy travelling around the world testing new gear or closing advertising deals with the brands... So sad.

They say that other people experience is just theory... That is humans. Even my pets are far better than that!


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 Post subject: Re: The Safety Topic: please post your experience and advice
PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 10:11 am 
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Location: L.A. & Ventura Counties, CA
mr moon wrote:
karenkites wrote:
My advice is to take plenty of lessons as many as you can afford and then some more, with a quality instructor, you will avoid many problems and when you do encounter a problem you will be better equipped to handle it.
As owner of Northshore Kite and Sail Repair, I can tell you, I've seen alot


That is key..

Unfortunately most people seem to try and save on lessons when they start, they jjust don't know the risks.

What is even worse is how some experienced kitesurfers involved in my rescue, although in shock by what happened they haven't changed their (bad) habits, completely ignoring any lesson side of it. I just don't digest that. Down to an international Kite magazine (local to me) that although initially keen in featuring the whole story (and a happy one too!), they dropped it... Instead to make everyone aware and teach some good safety tips through my experience, they've completely ignored it. They are probably too busy travelling around the world testing new gear or closing advertising deals with the brands... So sad.

They say that other people experience is just theory... That is humans. Even my pets are far better than that!

You shouldn't be surprised at their lack of interest.
The magazines are the premier promoters of unsafe behavior. Idolizing the stupidest and most dangerous activities. Such as jumping over people and over or upwind of dangerous obstacles, kiting with storm clouds everywhere, etc. And of course, all without helmets or other protective gear.

This is DELIBERATE because they specifically don't want their readers to get the impression that the sport is dangerous.

In fact, believe it or not, back in the day, some magazines would NOT TAKE YOUR MONEY FOR AN AD if you showed someone wearing a helmet !

Richard M.
Malibu Kitesurfing - since 2002
(310) - 430 - KITE (5483)
http://www.MalibuKitesurfing.NET
kfRichard@MalibuKitesurfing.NET


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 Post subject: Re: The Safety Topic: please post your experience and advice
PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 3:36 pm 
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RichardM wrote:
mr moon wrote:
karenkites wrote:
My advice is to take plenty of lessons as many as you can afford and then some more, with a quality instructor, you will avoid many problems and when you do encounter a problem you will be better equipped to handle it.
As owner of Northshore Kite and Sail Repair, I can tell you, I've seen alot


That is key..

Unfortunately most people seem to try and save on lessons when they start, they jjust don't know the risks.

What is even worse is how some experienced kitesurfers involved in my rescue, although in shock by what happened they haven't changed their (bad) habits, completely ignoring any lesson side of it. I just don't digest that. Down to an international Kite magazine (local to me) that although initially keen in featuring the whole story (and a happy one too!), they dropped it... Instead to make everyone aware and teach some good safety tips through my experience, they've completely ignored it. They are probably too busy travelling around the world testing new gear or closing advertising deals with the brands... So sad.

They say that other people experience is just theory... That is humans. Even my pets are far better than that!

You shouldn't be surprised at their lack of interest.
The magazines are the premier promoters of unsafe behavior. Idolizing the stupidest and most dangerous activities. Such as jumping over people and over or upwind of dangerous obstacles, kiting with storm clouds everywhere, etc. And of course, all without helmets or other protective gear.

This is DELIBERATE because they specifically don't want their readers to get the impression that the sport is dangerous.

In fact, believe it or not, back in the day, some magazines would NOT TAKE YOUR MONEY FOR AN AD if you showed someone wearing a helmet !

Richard M.
Malibu Kitesurfing - since 2002
(310) - 430 - KITE (5483)
http://www.MalibuKitesurfing.NET
kfRichard@MalibuKitesurfing.NET


Dude, you've enlightened me! That explains many things.. :cool2:
Not only the TAKE OUR MONEY FOR AN AD, BUT TO PAY FOR THEIR OWN TRIPS, THEIR GEAR AND THEIR FUN!!!
So many brats around the world living their dreams while we are stuck on a windy day working... I am not envious but I'm not either going to pay for their dreams whilst others are getting killed due to lack of safety education in our amazing sport.
I'm no longer a magazine buyer anyway... In fact if I can I'll boycott them!!! :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: The Safety Topic: please post your experience and advice
PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 9:40 am 
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RichardM wrote:
The magazines are the premier promoters of unsafe behavior. Idolizing the stupidest and most dangerous activities. Such as jumping over people and over or upwind of dangerous obstacles, kiting with storm clouds everywhere, etc. And of course, all without helmets or other protective gear.


I think you'll find it's also known as 'fun'. If you saw that vid of the guy jumping the pier a few years back and your first thought was 'wheres his safety helmet' you need to be doing something else like sewing or scrabble. The sport as a whole is dangerous, that's half the appeal. The fact that there is better equipment and safer gear nowadays is just a bonus.


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 Post subject: Re: The Safety Topic: please post your experience and advice
PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 3:08 pm 
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The Captain wrote:
Prior to launching, every time, do a mental checklist, and move your hands to;
QR
LEASH RELEASE
KNIFE
But your brain in the 'what if' state, ready with muscle memory, then you are ready to act if required.

Accidents are always a complete surprise!


I like this Captain. I think many new kiters also need a different type of mental checklist. We are able to teach almost anyone these days but most people I think tend to just take an all day type lesson and then try and rent or go buy a $600 setup to practice the basics. Unfortunately most people do not have the ability to recall instructors guidance verbatim.

When I managed a school, I talked to everyone and gathered waivers from all people launching and landing. I met a lot of people some who came out to kite, but I doubt they really even got their mind wrapped around the idea. One gentleman managed to get mostly ready while I was busy and when I walked out to see if he needed a launch I stopped him. His impact vest was inside out and backwards(saw him struggle into it through the corner of my eye) his waist harness was upside down, his helmet was backwards, and I'm pretty sure his bar was rigged improperly. I asked him what he was doing today and he just said "Ughhhhh" I replied that's right, not kiting. I told him to shed his gear which was all on wrong and told him to go get a coffee, think about what he learned from his lessons that he had taken elsewhere and come back and we'll square him away. It was all very friendly though, I wasn't rude or anything but I didn't want him to get hurt because for every case like this, there are so many who make it out under kite facility radar.

Some people out there need not only a mental check about their gear as Captain suggests, but they need a mental check to say, I'm jumping into a pretty awesome/risky game and I need to be alert and having my thinking cap on to do this. I think as whole, experienced kiters and instructors need to not be afraid to tell someone, you NEED more lesson time. It's too easy for someone to do well in a lesson and be signed off as competent to rent gear and the next day launch unhooked and loop themselves into some rocks.


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 Post subject: Re: The Safety Topic: please post your experience and advice
PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 8:35 pm 
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Location: L.A. & Ventura Counties, CA
sijandy wrote:
RichardM wrote:
The magazines are the premier promoters of unsafe behavior. Idolizing the stupidest and most dangerous activities. Such as jumping over people and over or upwind of dangerous obstacles, kiting with storm clouds everywhere, etc. And of course, all without helmets or other protective gear.


I think you'll find it's also known as 'fun'. If you saw that vid of the guy jumping the pier a few years back and your first thought was 'wheres his safety helmet' you need to be doing something else like sewing or scrabble. The sport as a whole is dangerous, that's half the appeal. The fact that there is better equipment and safer gear nowadays is just a bonus.


Perhaps if you reread the TITLE of this thread, it will start to dawn on you that your post is somewhat out of place. You are obviously NOT one of the types of people who are expected to interested in this thread.

That you think the behaviors mentioned are "fun" and that danger is "half the appeal" is the exact type of irresponsible attitude which gets beaches closed to kiters.

I suggest that an adrenaline hero such as yourself can vastly improve your "fun" very easily and quickly make the rest of us more comfortable knowing that you won't be coming to beaches where we are. Simply get a scuba weight belt and wear it while kiting. Adjust the weight so its hard to stay afloat. Once it occurs to you that it will be much easier to die, you should have more "fun" than you ever had and will be less likely to do the kind of "fun" behaviors listed above which are more likely to get beaches closed.

Actually, whenever I see pictures of rocket scientists doing things like jumping PUBLIC piers without authorization, my first thought is that it is totally irresponsible because it encourages baby rocket scientists (who may accidentally visit threads regarding safety) to conclude that doing dangerous stuff at public beaches is the best way to GET ATTENTION and be cool.

Richard M.
Malibu Kitesurfing - since 2002
(310) - 430 - KITE (5483)
http://www.MalibuKitesurfing.NET
kfRichard@MalibuKitesurfing.NET


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 Post subject: Re: The Safety Topic: please post your experience and advice
PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 6:55 am 
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RichardM wrote:

That you think the behaviors mentioned are "fun" and that danger is "half the appeal" is the exact type of irresponsible attitude which gets beaches closed to kiters.

- No it's not.... just because you appreciate people showing extreme levels of skill and balls doesn't mean your gonna go straight to the beach and replicate it does it... were not all sheep!

Quote:
Simply get a scuba weight belt and wear it while kiting. Adjust the weight so its hard to stay afloat.

- That's a bit rich ain't it coming from Mr. Super Sensible Safety... is this the mature attitude I should adopt then? ....dickhead.


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 Post subject: Re: The Safety Topic: please post your experience and advice
PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 12:53 pm 
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sijandy wrote:
RichardM wrote:

That you think the behaviors mentioned are "fun" and that danger is "half the appeal" is the exact type of irresponsible attitude which gets beaches closed to kiters.

Quote:
- No it's not.... just because you appreciate people showing extreme levels of skill and balls doesn't mean your gonna go straight to the beach and replicate it does it... were not all sheep!


Dude, why do we wear safety belts in the car and safety helmets on motorbikes? Why do we have speed limits on our roads?

It's not about being sheep..

You might not try to jump a pier but the kids would, they would drive a 100 mph without a clue of how to handle a turn or a slide... they are hazards in a public space.

In kiting might not just be the kids but the beginners or, like myself in my accident, even an experience kiter who had the balls (and skills) to handle 50kn winds and 25ft waves without a blink until one day the shit hit the fan :roll:

Don't play with your luck (I've been there :cool2: ) because it might (and possibly will) run out one day :wink:

This forum is to try to make the sport safer, making treasure of people's experiences. There is enough bad publicity due to the thrill seekers and inexperienced money savers, let's try to improve this buddy!

No one wants to take away the thrill of it, it's an extreme sport and it will always be.

The magazines are NOT interested in SAFETY and full stop.

Kiting it's a relatively new sport and there is a lot to be improved.. not just new colour ranges to be released every year 8)

My two cents :bye:


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 Post subject: Re: The Safety Topic: please post your experience and advice
PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 7:04 am 
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Quote:
You might not try to jump a pier but the kids would, they would drive a 100 mph without a clue of how to handle a turn or a slide... they are hazards in a public space.


...no they wouldn't, just cos they're younger doesn't mean they're stupid. Nobody intentionally hurts themselves. Unless when you say 'kids' you mean toddlers but given the youngest kiter i've ever seen was 10 i'm guessing your generally referring too teens as i'm guessing most very young kiters are most probably supervised. If your the type of person that wants to copy something you've seen in a mag/video without any practice/prep etc then i don't think it matters how old you are...it's your personality. If this was the case then surely every extreme sport would have an epidemic of loads of dead kids..... just look at the crazy vids Red Bull produce for almost every extreme sport out there. I'm yet to see any kids trying to jump a motorbike onto some high rise buildings yet but i'll keep an eye out. Just think it's a bit sad when someone has set out to achieve some feat which usually envolves a lot of planning/practice/conditions/saftey-ha etc and then get a bashing for it! I would of thought it's general accidents and inexperience thats the main contributor to beach closures rather than magazine stunts!


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 Post subject: Re: The Safety Topic: please post your experience and advice
PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2013 9:13 am 
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sijandy wrote:
Quote:
You might not try to jump a pier but the kids would, they would drive a 100 mph without a clue of how to handle a turn or a slide... they are hazards in a public space.


...no they wouldn't, just cos they're younger doesn't mean they're stupid. Nobody intentionally hurts themselves. Unless when you say 'kids' you mean toddlers but given the youngest kiter i've ever seen was 10 i'm guessing your generally referring too teens as i'm guessing most very young kiters are most probably supervised. If your the type of person that wants to copy something you've seen in a mag/video without any practice/prep etc then i don't think it matters how old you are...it's your personality. If this was the case then surely every extreme sport would have an epidemic of loads of dead kids..... just look at the crazy vids Red Bull produce for almost every extreme sport out there. I'm yet to see any kids trying to jump a motorbike onto some high rise buildings yet but i'll keep an eye out. Just think it's a bit sad when someone has set out to achieve some feat which usually envolves a lot of planning/practice/conditions/saftey-ha etc and then get a bashing for it! I would of thought it's general accidents and inexperience thats the main contributor to beach closures rather than magazine stunts!


Ok I might have been wrong generalizing with 'kids'... And in fact I don't have anything against people taking kiting to the extreme jumping piers and other stuff. You just don't get anything we are talking about (safety) and the whole meaning of this forum! :nono: Have you thought to read a different forum perhaps? :idea:


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