[quote="Enclave"]I just found this over Google and read the first few topics, please stop talking about JN Kites!!!

They could be the best kites ever and I wouldn't buy one, why?

Simple, who want to ride a kite called:

Prima Donna 4 or Mr. Fantastic 2 ??? What the f***

Sad that JN as a brand is not in good shape as a brand, probably bad marketing and ridiculous names for the kites. But really try those kites before this brand gets into historybooks. Primadonna is one of the best 5 line c shaped hybrid kites out there. MR Fantastic is one of the best deltas out there. Really simple bridle, but works really good and feels accurate and responsive. Naish charger was not even close. Even their 4 line c shape hybrid Wild thing 3 is really good kite, similar to new 2012 Park but more powerful in my opinion. JN kites really rock. But so far they havent come out with 2012 lineup, so looks like they are in trouble.

I have 9m torch 2010 and now another 11m 2012
had no problems, using torch 2010 + Shift 2010 (or even 2008 without any adjustments), but with 2012 torch, the bar does not want to work properly.
used to ride 2008, 2010, 2011 torches and now with 2012 it looks like a problem...
Is there any diference between Shift System 2010 bar and 2012 (I mean line length or anything else, related with the dimensions)
I`ve already analised 2012 SS interactively and have not noticed any

the question is: is it a bar (to be adjusted) or a 2012 new kite behavior (time to get used to it)

@handyman

Could you please be a bit more specific - in what way does the bar not work properly?
You will have noticed that the 2012 bar varies from previous models in that it has gone back to an above the bar adjustment strap with a single sheathed line, as opposed to the recent years Shift system trimming being below the bar at the Smart loop. Is this where you are having problems? or is it related to how the kite is reacting to bar input?
Apart from that the Shift system has not changed, with the standard line length remaining at 24m.

Brian

Thanks Brien,
For me it does not matter where "trimming system" is below or above the bar.
"or is it related to how the kite is reacting to bar input?" - correct

Ok, then deeper into the problem....

it seems like kite itself is insufficiently loaded due to the improper course of bar (as it seems to me). Of course the reason could be caused by the fact that the bar was depressed so dramatically that I simply must get used to a new feeling
(feel fine, being unhooked)

Here are some drawings about the doubts.

Could anyone give me the correct length value, marked as "??? mm"

Another story about kite ability to nod when the wind is gusty. This can result in losing its balance and falling down with or without eversion.

@handyman

Good drawings
First dimension, depowered mode, is 335mm from top of red plastic QR to centre of bar.
On second dimension it is not clear where you require the lower measurement from, as you do not show the depower strap - but from the white attaching knot at the top of the depower strap to the attaching knot on short white V splitter is 10.9 m, give or take a couple of mm - that would be overall length of centre single lower grey line, knotted.

Also just checking that you are aware of the adjusting knots under the bar floaters.
With the reduced bar throw on the new system, the steeering line length is more critical than the older long throw system as you do not want to be over sheeting the kite as this can be a cause of it stalling and falling out of the sky.

You are obviously an experienced Torch rider so not sure how we can give more input on how the kite should react. Reading one of our team riders reports on the 2012 Torch MAY give you a little more insight - you can read it here: http://www.suntrax.co.za/torch2011review.html

Brian

Thanks BRIAN, will take this into acount:-) . Aprissiate for the data as well. Will tune my bar....

And finaly the last question for you Brian, if you don't mind.
Could you measure the length difference between the control line and leading ones, at a bar full power position
Thanks in advance

Hi Handyman

Sorry but that is not very clear - perhaps do a sketch again

Thanks

Brian

when you take all the lines together (point 1,2,3,4,5) from the kite side and fix the bar in position (see pic.) from the other, you will see some difference, which can be measured
If you unexpectedly find any difference between the line N&K please do the measurements too (just in case)

Hi Handyman

Sorry but this is getting rather complicated for a public forum plus I am getting confused about what you require.
I would recomend that you find somone in your area with a 2012 Torch and compare line lengths plus bar set-up - or get back to the Naish selling dealer if you feel that the kite has issues.

If anyone else (Tauts?) is clear on what is required here please do not be shy to respond

Brian