Supa - When I went from my Rev 13m to the Zephyr 17m I picked up that range from 9-12 knots. The Rev starts at about 12 knots and goes on up. I always thought if I wanted to pick up that 7-10 knot range I would get the FS Speed Deluxe 21m. However I have seen the big FS in action (17m Speed) and it's got it's foil issues that I'm not sure if I would like. Positives are:

1. Floats straight overhead without need for "moving" the kite in the lightest of winds
2. Easy to put down at self landing

Negatives are:
1. Kind of requires a buddy to "loof" up the canopy to catch the air (lightest winds)in the foils at launch
2. Takes up a huge chunk of the beach
3. Lines and bridle can get tangled and be harder to "figure" out than the typical 4 line tube kite

Thinking of your 19m I definitely would appreciate maybe another knot on the low end, some quicker turns and easier self landing. It would have to replace the Zephyr, I don't think anything would add a new "dimension" to light wind kitesurfing except the FS 21m...

Re your negatives ...
1. Launch it properly side launch if the wind is good, hot launch if it's very light. Prefilling a little is IMHO important - getting air in the body of the canopy stops the bottom skin being pushed onto top skin and slowing inflation. Prefill through the dump valves if you're hot launching ...
2. True ...
3. False don't pull the buggers tight and they should all jiggle out nicely. The only real issue you can have is putting the bar through the bridles when you pack up - but being aware of it makes it easy to spot.

Another positive for the foils - TE down on the water is no issue at all. Nearly had to swim in last night when I dropped my Xbow ... hauling in a mile of center lines got it to roll over ... just

... I'm still keen to try any and all 'light wind' LEIs though - it's always nice to have the buffer that if the wind hikes up, your beach buddies know how to land your kite

HI,

Not on the lakes, I am in the Alpes in France so I can snowkiteing in mountains. It is clearely more fun than on flat...And with the snow you have less drag than the water so you can reallt start to make big jump with the slope with really light wind.

Nono

IMO if you can't stay upwind in Ultra light wind with ALL the conditions working against you then who gives a Rip.

A blue tarp can get you going: downwind to catch the bus back.

When drift/current is going same direction as wind while you got a reading on the beach that it was blowing a mighty 8-9 mph, the only Kite I have ridden or seen that has enough is the Speed 3 21. Oh yea, and weighing 240lbs being able to jump at 10 mph.

Thanks for good comments

At our weights of 75 kg yes you could pick up the 7 knots low end
The 21M (because of it's size only and nothin else) permits that low end
Steady 8 miles per hour is not much wind but it does belong to the 21 and that's ok by me
I know the 21 very well.....surely went out over 100 times on it in extra light winds (7-8-9MPH)

The 21 does add a "new dimension to LW but it is short lived" for most of us
As soon as the wind hits 8 knots (9.3mph) many LW kites work supa well (especially theXR2 19)

If it is really 7-10 knots (average 8.5 knots) and the wind "only occasionally" goes low to 7 knots...
...IMO at our light average body weights the 21 is "not a must have"

I have not yet missed (the 21) or missed a LW session (9-10-11mph) on my XR2LW 19 in waves

Definitely a different story if you are 91kg(200lbs) and over
The 21 is definitely for their weights a LW session saver for sure
I have a friend who is 109kg (240lbs) and the 21 is a must have to have any fun in LW

By the way the XR2LW 19 (10.75lbs incl.bridle) will "float' straight overhead in 6knots (7mph)
Without having to move to kite at all to keep it up...zero hindenberg or backstall

Negative of the 21: only has 2 velcro air exit valves.It is not enough to deflate/pack down fast
Positive of the 21: pre-inflate leeward 1/2 of kite & launches at edge of wind window supa fast

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Different colored Mattresses maybe?

Supa - since I am a light wind nut you really got me thinking about that Core 19m. You're saying that the Core 19 will hover overhead nicely in super light wind? With my Zephyr I have to carefully sine it back and forth to get it in safely. What makes that LEI any different? Is it flatter? Does it like to fly forward in the window or back or center? TX

From one LW nut to another
If 6 knots means Supa LW then yes.......in 5 knots you would have to move it around to stay up
That Delta shape LEI is quite lightweight for its size and very well balanced (aspect ratio to area)
6 knots is being stationary on the beach..walking in from the water would make true wind 5 knots

Not so much that is is flatter (like a Dyno17 2012 for example)

It does like to fly forward in the window a lot....beautiful thin leading edge and shape for a 19M
I go from that kite to my 12 Rebel 2011 without any gap in wind range on strap surfboard

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In case you need to know...a 21M will float overhead in 4 knots (5mph) without moving the bar

At 3 knots (4mph) it will stay up by moving the bar back and forth

I have kite landboarded on hard packed flat beach with 21 in onshore 4 knots
No other kite can actually do that as effortlessly as the 21
Was able to peak at 3 times the wind speed on a beam reach

I was while using the 21 in XLW and in LW 3 meters extensions (21+3=24...+bridle 5m = 29m lines)

The Core Riot XR2 LW19 flies at it's best with 24+3m ext.(included)= 27m lines

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The term "power" and cubed is correct yes Mr Hansen.

But not very useful for our use IMO.

Power is cubed with wind speed, as your chart shows, yes.

But power is the rate of work (or work per timeunit).

Work is force excerted on a distance.

So the "force" is what is relevant for us - and the force is the same as the pull in our lines, which we can relate to.


Force from a kite is squared with the windspeed, giving the following chart :





And if we also take apparent wind into consideration (assuming maybe hypthetically that we can get on a really slow plane in 5 knots), we get the following (with my assumptions on board speeds) :



Where it is clear, that the difference in force in different windspeeds is a bit less than the squared difference in wind speed, because of the apparent wind

But nevertheless, it is still correct - that the pull from the kite is EXTREMELY higher even at a small increase in wind speed

Peter Frank