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 Post subject: Re: Friendly kite for gusty conditions or when overpowered
PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 10:07 am 
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One work: KAHOONA V4....
I have used my Kahoona 5,5 in 62 knots, it has a huge windrange, and very predictable and easy to ride overpowered. You can ride the 7,5 when you normally would ride a 9, and puch easily over 40knots (even though they do not recommend over 35 as a norm...).
It softens out the gusts in a nice way, and the pivot turning help not killing you when you make a mistake way overpowered...


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 Post subject: Re: Friendly kite for gusty conditions or when overpowered
PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 11:53 am 
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Here is a little comparison test I did on Monday this week.
Tried an Epic Renegade versus an Epic Screamer.
The three strut, medium aspect Renegade was a much better gust muncher, just like it says on their website.
The Renegade turned power off and on very easy with sheeting.
They market it as Dimitri's surf kite and as their all around easy freeride machine.

RRD Vision, a beginner specific kite..three strut, medium aspect.
Wainman kites are surfed at Jaws, ..three strut, lower aspect.
Ozone Catalyst/Reo ...three struts, medium aspect.
Slingshot Key, a beginner kite, a three strut bow.
You can go from brand to brand and their beginner kites and their surf kites are medium aspect or medium low, and usually three strut. They market those kites as all around, easy, beginner friendly, and sometimes school kites for a reason.

So the Screamer flew further to the edge of the window, was harder to turn off in a gust, jumped massively and has gobs of hangtime. It was like a more refined, souped up version of the Rise kites I flew for their 2008, 2009, 2010 model years. The Screamer was clearly not as easy in our really gusty inland lake.
For me, the Screamer was way more fun, but that is personal preference.
Course racing kites, speed racing kites, boost monster kites, are higher aspect and typically five struts and sometimes more. They are more demanding, more finicky, not as easy going, and of course, more rewarding for your experienced kiters. Nobody is teaching on Screamers, Edges & C4's, Nemesis HP, Vegas, Variel X or Razor, Prime, Obsession Pro, Switch Nitro, Torches, etc. All higher aspect kites.

Are some of you folks confusing the great sheetability of the flat-ish bow shape (which sheet out hugely and are safe in gusty wind) for a high aspect ratio? They usually are not high aspect, are they? ..maybe they are different now. I do still agree, as stated before, that bow kites are good for beginners and are safe and sheet out well. It's just that some are slow and have high bar pressure, so not super exciting.

Of the kites I have actually flown and compared (no theory stuff) in our really gusty, lully, shifty inland lakes....three strut medium aspect kites have killed the five strut higher aspect ratio kites over and over again for safety and beginner friendly-ness.

But I still like the boosty ones best. :D


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 Post subject: Re: Friendly kite for gusty conditions or when overpowered
PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 12:00 pm 
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I would also say mid AR bow like kites, many struts and a stiff canopy, are by far the best (or even relatively high AR) - definitely not low AR as they sit deeper and will convert wind spikes to pull :x

The mid AR swept/a bit flat kites kites can depower extremely, and suck up gusts well, and will drift superstable without tucking (when a good balanced kite of course).
Drift is important, as even when not riding waves - it will resemble when the wind suddenly drops close to zero...

I have never met a kite as good as the "old" Nova2, for this purpose - and I loved it back then (and sometimes miss it when the waves are HUGE and gusty wind).
Too slow turning today in size over 9m2, but they were "extreme" in its abilities to cope with extreme winds, and awesome wave kites and "crazy wind" handling kites.

Got a friend who still uses this kite in 7m2 for waves - and he loves it because of its range and stability and gust absorbing.


Today most of our kites (all brands) are a bit more of a compromise, because we want faster turning, and better unhooked capabilites - but still overall good gust handling and depower.
So the (most) kites today are a bit more "in the middle" of everything I would say - and that is fine.

We often ride a few meters directly behind rotating wings on piers with a pattern of disturbing windturbines - and trust me, you wont find (m)any places with as turbulent and changing and gusty winds, as here :o

But it does not matter with the right kites - and the waves are EXCELLENT - so that is what matters :thumb:

C kites are impossible, and low AR grunty SLE kites are not fun either - but the majority of kites with medium AR and not too much grunt, and a bit swept (gives self-stability and a bit more flat), are the thing to use in these conditions IMO.

For an example (with the kites I use now), the Takoon Soul or Furia is great for these conditions (and overall wave conditions anywhere).
But a powerkite like the Takoon Chrono would not work well because of too much power...
The Wainman Rabbit kites are awesome in general in waves - but a bit too low AR and too much grunt in such "crazy" changing winds, so difficult in these conditions.

Just some examples to explain what we experience :roll:

When walking out straight behind the wings (and high buildings 15 meters windward to the launch spot), you can not keep the kite at 12, no matter WHAT kite you got - thats for sure...
You have to keep the kite quite low - and it will often tumble down anyway, before you are on your board - and you have to use a good kite and have good reflexes/kite control.

When you are on the water with speed, you can ride with the kite low, and much easier to ride now - and the waves are used when the wind goes to "zero" suddenly, so it works great when you got the right kites (and technique of course - TT's and keeping the kite high is not good).

Actually this is my favourite wave spot here in the neighbourhood, because of its perfect long and clean waves and sideshore and steep.
Particulary when you ride just a few meters behind the wings/pier - then the waves comes in sets, so flat or just mellow small waves - and then suddenly the "almost perfect" wave sets roll in, and the wind sideshore because of the sand reefs turning the waves fully around, apart from the pier doing its "job" to.
Only downside is the wind "quality" - and years ago it was impossible to ride here with our C kites (and the old C kites were even worse as some could Hindenburg).
But now it is not a problem when you got the gear and experience (and we can ride without any crows - no beginners nor non-wave riders 8) )

But many medium AR non-grunty kites will work excellent for these conditions, f.ex the Naish Park is really good.
And also the major part of non-grunty medium AR a bit swept kites - works (IMO) best for such conditions :naughty:

Some really low AR kites work well too, and also other types, if they have a lot of depower and stability, so it is all in the "total" of parameters !
Meaning - many riders will recommend very different type of kites for these conditions - and they are probably right, as most are not seeking the "ultimate" kite - but one that is a good compromise :rollgrin:


Extremely gusty/changing wind (Like cheese - a lot of sudden "holes") is a thing we are very used to at these kind of spots :rollgrin:

:D Peter

Between sets

Image


Image


Image



You can ride far away from the turbines too - if you want "easy" wind

Image


Image


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 Post subject: Re: Friendly kite for gusty conditions or when overpowered
PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 6:53 pm 
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Ahhhh . so my low aspect kite is other peoples medium. i call the reo and cat low aspect kites . edge and speed 3 high aspect.


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 Post subject: Re: Friendly kite for gusty conditions or when overpowered
PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 7:13 pm 
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Location: Hayle, UK. Sponsored by North, Ion, Freeriders. www.pastyadventures.co.uk
North Rebel has to be the best kite for gusty wind especially the 2012 7m. was out today at a real gusty 20-35knts wave spot. no one else ever really kites here as when they do they always says its too gusty but i never really notice it on the Rebels. super stable as well. i find the lower aspect kites cause they sit back more have a big pull as the gust hits as they fly forwrd to spill wind. on the rebel as it sits forward you can just shhet out a little and it instantly loses that spike meaning you dont get pulled off when strapless for instance


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 Post subject: Re: Friendly kite for gusty conditions or when overpowered
PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 8:31 pm 
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tomatkins wrote:
Until proven otherwise, I would bet on a high aspect kite with a very stablized canopy. It seems like the more struts the better, and the more pulleys, the better, since they would enable the kite to make more "micro-adjustments" more quickly, and resist "deformation" of the canopy. Something like a 7 strut Bow kite, blown up really hard, would be my choice.

I would love to see some other style kite, that has less struts, less pulleys, and one that turns faster, and drifts better out perform a Bow kite in the gusts. I would buy that kite!


I agree with this, I love my Envys but they are a bit harder to handle in the gusts since they're so light with 3 struts.

As much as I hate to say it because I can't stand the kites, something like a switchblade is probably your best bet. Big depower, very stable canopy with all the struts and pulleys.


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 Post subject: Re: Friendly kite for gusty conditions or when overpowered
PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2012 9:58 am 
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dyyylan wrote:
tomatkins wrote:
Until proven otherwise, I would bet on a high aspect kite with a very stablized canopy. It seems like the more struts the better, and the more pulleys, the better, since they would enable the kite to make more "micro-adjustments" more quickly, and resist "deformation" of the canopy. Something like a 7 strut Bow kite, blown up really hard, would be my choice.

I would love to see some other style kite, that has less struts, less pulleys, and one that turns faster, and drifts better out perform a Bow kite in the gusts. I would buy that kite!


I agree with this, I love my Envys but they are a bit harder to handle in the gusts since they're so light with 3 struts.

As much as I hate to say it because I can't stand the kites, something like a switchblade is probably your best bet. Big depower, very stable canopy with all the struts and pulleys.


do you really want pulleys in gusty stormy conditions? that something extra to get tangled and fail at the most inappropriate time. plus the bridles wear... again snapped bridles... not fun in silly conditions.

ps i have 3 kites with pullies.... but my storm lei doesn't!.


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 Post subject: Re: Friendly kite for gusty conditions or when overpowered
PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2012 4:54 pm 
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plummet wrote:
dyyylan wrote:
tomatkins wrote:
Until proven otherwise, I would bet on a high aspect kite with a very stablized canopy. It seems like the more struts the better, and the more pulleys, the better, since they would enable the kite to make more "micro-adjustments" more quickly, and resist "deformation" of the canopy. Something like a 7 strut Bow kite, blown up really hard, would be my choice.


...do you really want pulleys in gusty stormy conditions? that something extra to get tangled and fail at the most inappropriate time. plus the bridles wear...
.


Yes, if they help to keep the canopy "foil shape" intact, by relieving tension on the various sections of the kite, thus preventing the canopy fabric from flapping or getting caught up in a "undampened, forced harmonic" situation, where the kite spirals out of control.

As far as what is the best kite to have in super-gusty-shifty-holey high wind conditions, judged from a durability standpoint... that is a whole different matter for discussion. Even the subject of which kite would have the most reliable safety system, when released to its safety in such extreme conditions... that would be a subject worthy of its own thread and discussion.

I still wonder what would have happened if the guy in that "Crossbow vs the Squall" account, if the kite had been thrown to its safety, rather than flown overhead during the squall.

As far as picking the best kite to fly in horrible high wind and gusty/shifty/holey condition, I would think that it woud be a good idea to take into consideration the durability and safety/self-rescue characteristics of a particular kite, as well as its performance/controlability characteristics. I don't know what kite would be the winner, in this case.

Bragging about the kite you favor might be like "bragging about being the tallest Leprechaun "...


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 Post subject: Re: Friendly kite for gusty conditions or when overpowered
PostPosted: Mon Dec 23, 2013 4:23 am 
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Location: California
My 6m rpm was a real handful in the last nasty blow.
I need a wave kite that can handle crazy gusts.
So I'm looking at the Park and the Reo.
Any other suggestions are welcome.
Thank you. Windy.


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 Post subject: Re: Friendly kite for gusty conditions or when overpowered
PostPosted: Mon Dec 23, 2013 4:30 pm 
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I find my Ocean Rodeo prodigies work incredibly well in gusty, holey conditions with big peaks on the gusts.. Very stable, quick and predictable depower on the bar, and a very nice characteristic of not turning fast from small bar movements but turning pretty darn quick when you yank the bar hard. Good slackline drift and very good construction as well. I know there are lots of great kites out there -- this is just a testimonial that the prodigies work really well for me in these conditions.


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